Bread Making

[lemonD]

Many moons ago the kids and I used to make bagels, sort of crusty rolls with a hole in the middle
I want to get back in to bread making, specifically a FarmHouse loaf typical of good bakers, a light open texture and a crispy crust.
Can I achieve this without using fresh yeast?

LD

[jenny_haddow]

LD

I use dried yeast most of the time and achieve good results, both by hand and with a bread machine. Just recently I have been using bread improver which contains various enzymes that make the yeast really go to work. The results are amazing, best bread I have ever made, and I haven't bought a loaf for about 15 years.

I'll dig out the contact from ebay and post it, I know there was special farmhouse improver in their stock.

HTH

Jen

[johnfb]

Here's one

http://www.cooks.com/rec/view/0,194,142 ... 07,00.html


And another

http://www.grouprecipes.com/s/yeastless ... /relevancy

[saucisson]

I think that was no fresh yeast John, not no yeast at all A nice selection of recipes though.

[wheels]

LD

You can make bread using a sourdough starter which doesn't use 'manufactured' yeast.

The details are here

I don't like cup measurements and if I was making it would do something like (following the basic method on the web-page above):

Mix:
250g water
250g flour
Loosely cover in a bowl/jar - the air needs to be able to get to it.

Chuck 250g each day and feed with:
125g water
125g flour

Do this for 1 week then use 250gm of above and add:
125g water
125g flour

Mix and leave 4 hours or so then add:
350g flour
150g water
1.5 tsp salt
2 tbsp oil

Machine kneed for 5 mins, leave 15, kneed again 5 mins. Leave to rise till twice its original volume (overnight?).
Shape and leave to prove until doubled in size.
Cook 200C (I'd guess about 30-40 mins but until it sounds hollow when tapped on the bottom). Spray with water 3 times in first 10 mins.

Total in bread:
600g flour
400 water (66% hydration)
1.5 tsp salt
2 tbsp oil

You should still have 250gm of the starter left to continue the process.

Phil

[saucisson]

So I assume the idea is that once you have the starter up and running you are using the 250g every day to make bread? If you weren't making bread on a particular day would you throw the 250g out, or let it sit where it was?

Dave

[wheels]

Dave

I don't make bread this way myself - I keep meaning to start again. When I did it before I used to put the the starter in the fridge and refresh it a couple of days before use. I think you could leave it out though and chuck/refresh every couple of days or so. The thing I remember is that if you are not careful the bread is too sour.

If it's only the texture you're after - the 'chewiness' that you get in Italian style bread you can do a biga (aka poolish) - this uses a starter made the day before using yeast. I've had a play with this method here.

Purists - please note I don't claim that this is an 'authentic' recipe - it's in the style of!

Phil

[lemonD]

Jen, do you use the bread machine to cook or just mix? With 5 in the household I'm thinking of getting a kenwood chef to mix dough as well as sausage.

Phil, I was looking at a biga based focaccia recipe yesterday that sounded worth a try.
I was thinking of using the sponge method, do I need to go that far?

Thanks for the tips, keep 'em coming

LD

[saucisson]

I never got on with a bread maker and replaced it with an old Kenwood chef to mix dough and make sausages. I know Jen bought a Kenwood, but I remember whether that was to replace a breadmaker or to work alongside one.

Dave

[jenny_haddow]

I use both a bread maker and a Kenwood chef, but mostly the bread maker (Panasonic) for everyday use for baking, as I said, I haven't bought bread for years. I use the bread maker a lot of the time just to knead dough, but if I'm using fresh yeast I use the Kenwood (fresh yeast free from the bakery in Tesco BTW).

The address of the supplier I use for the bread improver is:

www.kitchenfoods.co.uk

I've had to take a bread machine to my house in France because the OH prefers a wholemeal or farmhouse loaf to a bagette for breakfast. It's also been interesting to experiment with French flour, I found an interesting perforated bagette baking tin which cooks three at a time.

[saucisson]

Thanks Jen, I'll definitely try some of that, even my best efforts seem a bit cake like.

Dave

[wheels]

...Phil, I was looking at a biga based focaccia recipe yesterday that sounded worth a try.
I was thinking of using the sponge method, do I need to go that far?

Thanks for the tips, keep 'em coming
LD

I would, it seems to be what gives the bread that authentic 'chewy' character.

Tips:
Higher % water = more open texture crumb
More fat (milk, butter, lard, oil) = softer crumb
Water (steam) in oven= crusty bread (Only steam in first half of cooking)
Bread made slowly (biga/poolish/spong method) has more flavour
Common mistakes:
Not kneeding for long enough (I do 10 mins by machine - Kenwood Chef). The dough should feel almost 'silky'.
Not leaving to rise long enough - It should be at least doubled in size.
Not leaving to prove long enough.
If the dough collapses while proving - you probably didn't kneed it enough.

Hope this helps

Phil

[johnfb]

In Ireland, Odlums, is a supplier of different flours, one of the largest.
This is their website and has some really good recipes for bread along with other stuff.
I use their strong flour for making pizza and bread and their basic yeast recipe is one I use all the time and is really nice and "fluffy" when eating.
Really worth a look.
By the way, Cream Flour is called palin flour in the UK.

http://www.odlums.ie/Recipes/Recipes2.html

[Spuddy]

Which one do you use Jen?

[Oddley]

If you are just starting out bread making, you could do worse than use one of wrightsflour bread mixes. I'm not ashamed to say, I occasionally make a mixed seed bread from one of their mixes. You can usually find them in Tesco.