Bread Making

[Kitchen Foods]

I have a question on the improver.
I only make bread about once a week as we dont eat a lot of it in my house. Usually 1 large loaf or 8 rolls.

If I bought the improver how long would it last before going off?
And is it worth it for such small amounts of bread making?
BTW, I dont use a bread maker just the old fashioned way by hand.

John

Hi John,
The improver shelf life varies between 6 months and 12 months, the new Farmhouse one I have received today is best before May 2009, the one I'm posting at the moment is April 09. My mother in law had some that was 6 months out of date, it still works! The main thing that will change is the fats in it will start to have an off taste.
Its well worth using, but if kneading by hand remember that the main cause of bad bread is lack of kneading, it takes approx 7mins in a proper mixer so thats a lot off elbow grease by hand!!
Cheers
Emma x

[jenny_haddow]

Thanks Emma, and welcome to the forum.

Cheers

Jen

[Kitchen Foods]

...Phil, I was looking at a biga based focaccia recipe yesterday that sounded worth a try.
I was thinking of using the sponge method, do I need to go that far?

Thanks for the tips, keep 'em coming
LD

I would, it seems to be what gives the bread that authentic 'chewy' character.

Tips:
Higher % water = more open texture crumb
More fat (milk, butter, lard, oil) = softer crumb
Water (steam) in oven= crusty bread (Only steam in first half of cooking)
Bread made slowly (biga/poolish/spong method) has more flavour
Common mistakes:
Not kneeding for long enough (I do 10 mins by machine - Kenwood Chef). The dough should feel almost 'silky'.
Not leaving to rise long enough - It should be at least doubled in size.
Not leaving to prove long enough.
If the dough collapses while proving - you probably didn't kneed it ehough.

Hope this helps

Phil

Hi Phil,
Your dead right on the above, lack of kneading is the biggest cause of poor bread, if the dough isn't developed enough the gluten won't have been released from the flour and the gluten holds the gas bubbles together that the yeast produces, hence heavy bread. A good tip is to take a small lump of dough and 'tease' it around in you fingers like chewing gum, trying to make it as thin as possible, you should be able to get it thin enough to see light through, if it simply breaks all the time its not mixed enough.
The more water principle mentioned makes the dough 'slacker' so its easier for the gas bubbles to 'push' it up.
Sometimes the loaf can collapse with too much water, this is because the cell structure (bubbles to you an me) are diluted too much cannot hold the loaf up.
TOP TIP, I always stick mine in the dishwasher to rise! just when its finished and its hot and steamy, ideal ! just remember not to switch it on again!!! this is ideal as commercial proofers will run at about 85% humidity and 40+ deg C.
Cheers
Emma x

[wheels]

Emma

Welcome. That's a great tip - unfortunately, in my case I am the dishwasher.

Phil

[johnfb]

I have a question on the improver.
I only make bread about once a week as we dont eat a lot of it in my house. Usually 1 large loaf or 8 rolls.

If I bought the improver how long would it last before going off?
And is it worth it for such small amounts of bread making?
BTW, I dont use a bread maker just the old fashioned way by hand.

John

Hi John,
The improver shelf life varies between 6 months and 12 months, the new Farmhouse one I have received today is best before May 2009, the one I'm posting at the moment is April 09. My mother in law had some that was 6 months out of date, it still works! The main thing that will change is the fats in it will start to have an off taste.
Its well worth using, but if kneading by hand remember that the main cause of bad bread is lack of kneading, it takes approx 7mins in a proper mixer so thats a lot off elbow grease by hand!!
Cheers
Emma x

Hi Emma
Thanks for that reply, and welcome to the forum.

I would like to use some of this improver, and this thread is the first time I have ever heard of it. What a sheltered life I lead.
The BBDs are perfect for me since I dont make huge quantities of bread.
I have checked your site and hope you dont mind if I private mail you with some more questions about payments and deliveries.
Hopefully you will be able to assist in this part of theforum as it is one of the more interesting sections...well for me anyway.
Thanks again
John

[lemonD]

Welcome Emma,
Hope we can tempt you into making homemade sausages as well as bread

Hi Jen
The farmhouse improver should be 1% or so of the flour weight, so 500g flour needs 5g of improver or roughly a teaspoon for ease of measurement. Wholemeal will require about 2 tsp.
Emma x

5g of improver is 2 1/2 tsp hence my question to Jen regarding usage, would you recommend using weight as a measure? Or maybe it should tablespoon?

LD

[johnfb]

Oddley

As I recall, when I was at school, we added a crushed vitamin c tablet to bread dough to get a quicker rise.

If you check out this commercial improver it contains:

Wheat Flour, Dextrose, Emulsifier: E472(e), Vegetable Oil, Flour Improver - E300.

So it's roughly Flour, Sugar, Oil and Vit C along with E472e which is, according to the web, "prepared from esters of glycerol (see E422) with tartaric acid (E334)" - anti freeze and lemon juice?

I'm not trying to be facetious just trying to illustrate that the same effect may be able to be achieved more cheaply using things that we already have about the house - but ignore the antifreeze. It's worth a play.

I make soft rolls using 600g Flour, 120ml hot water, 300ml smi-skimmed milk, 4 tbsp oil, 1.5 tsp salt and 7g easy blend yeast. For a soft crust I don't spray when cooking and cook at 180C until lightly browned - these are very light in texture and have good keeping qualities.



I prefer crusty bread but find it a pain to bake every day.

Phil

(edited at 01.31 on 28 June 2008 'cos, like an idiot, I said that the liquid was water instead of milk and water mixed!)

I made this recipe tonight. I tweeked it and added another 7grm of dry yeast and a tea spoon of sugar.
Worked wonderfully well and this is another keeper from Wheels.
Lovely fluffy result, nice taste and got the thumbs up from the missus. She said she will not buy burger buns any more so there's a result for sure. I also made 50/50 brown rolls and they too got a good response. My wife said if I make these each week she will n ot buy bread from the supermarket any more.....yipeeeeee

[Kitchen Foods]

Hi all, I will try to reply to all in one message!!
To John, no problem sending a private message, I'm unsure what BBD's are though!!
To LD, Yes I would love to make homemade sausages, but a) my local butcher is hard to beat! b) my friend has a machine and I'm still waiting to try her sausages! she keeps promising but not delivering!!! c) I spend far too much time on my computer and making bread!
To LD, The proper recipe states 0.5-2% of flour weight, I have found that bread machines need a little extra help! also I've had many troubles explaining what a gram is over the years so tend to state 1-2 heaped teaspoons to make in simple for those of us that may be simple (like me ) i just chuck a heaped teaspoon in for white and two for wholemeal.
To Johnfb, wow those rolls look great, I would be proud of them, the crushed VitC tablet is ascorbic acid which is a basic form of flour improver, however the improvers also have the fats, milk powder, sugar, emulsifiers etc in them to make it easier. One thing they do have in is expensive enzymes which can be blended to give a particular texture, crumb softness and keeping qualities. Some improvers like our soft style have different quantities of milk, salt, fat etc to give a soft crumb etc
Just a note, a lot of bakeries add calcium proportionate or vinegar to inhibit mould growth, the ones who dont get lots of mould complaints at this time of year!

[saucisson]

BBDs Best Before Dates. John likes the fact that they will last nearly a year as he will take a long time to use it all up.

(The photo of the rolls were from Wheels not John, John was quoting a post from Wheels.)

You should see the bag of rolls I was about to use tonight from a major chain they were turquoise all over. We had Pizza instead.

Dave

[Kitchen Foods]

Note to self..... never reply on forums after large glass of wine!!
Suddenly things become clear.. ish !!!
Cheers Dave

[saucisson]

Nothing wrong with fruit of the vine

Says me who bought red seedless grapes at 65p a kilo from Lidl today to see how much juice they will yield . Unfortunately my children descended on them when they saw them so my test sample is rather smaller than when I started.

Dave

[johnfb]

Hi all, I will try to reply to all in one message!!
To John, no problem sending a private message, I'm unsure what BBD's are though!!
To LD, Yes I would love to make homemade sausages, but a) my local butcher is hard to beat! b) my friend has a machine and I'm still waiting to try her sausages! she keeps promising but not delivering!!! c) I spend far too much time on my computer and making bread!
To LD, The proper recipe states 0.5-2% of flour weight, I have found that bread machines need a little extra help! also I've had many troubles explaining what a gram is over the years so tend to state 1-2 heaped teaspoons to make in simple for those of us that may be simple (like me ) i just chuck a heaped teaspoon in for white and two for wholemeal.
To Johnfb, wow those rolls look great, I would be proud of them, the crushed VitC tablet is ascorbic acid which is a basic form of flour improver, however the improvers also have the fats, milk powder, sugar, emulsifiers etc in them to make it easier. One thing they do have in is expensive enzymes which can be blended to give a particular texture, crumb softness and keeping qualities. Some improvers like our soft style have different quantities of milk, salt, fat etc to give a soft crumb etc
Just a note, a lot of bakeries add calcium proportionate or vinegar to inhibit mould growth, the ones who dont get lots of mould complaints at this time of year!

Sorry.... BBD's stand for Best Before Dates. We say BBD in my work all the time so it has become rather natural to me, and of course I now think everyone knows what it means. The other we use is BOGOF, pronounced bog off. the first time it was said to me I was a bit offended but it actually means Buy One Get One Free.

Yes Dave is right, the rolls were from Wheels' post but I may as well have used the picture to show mine as they turned out exactly like that.
Very impressed with this recipe and result.

[saucisson]

My improvers arrived today so I may have a baking session tomorrow.

Dave

[lemonD]

Same here Dave, any recommendations as to the make of dried yeast to use?

LD

[jenny_haddow]

Doves