Another cure question

[dave zac]

I started my very first venison ham last week and I am seemingly more confused by cure recipes / ratios than when I started. I had a homemade cure recipe I found on this site for venison ham that I was going to use. The recipe called for the finished cure to be applied at an amount of 1 tablespoon per pound and cure for 3 days per pound. Well, I couldn't find nitrate in time when I butchered my deer so I used Morton Tender quick. The package calls for application of 1/2 tablespoon per pound.

Why the big difference? I assume it may be because of the percentage of salt and nitrate but that is only a guess. I would have thought all recipes were generally the same as a commercially available curing product.

Is Tender quick not the right stuff to use on a 6 pound ham??

Dave

[Big Guy]

Tenderquick will do a nice job, just follow the manufactures instructions. every cure is not the same strength as far as nitrate is concerned. most cures labled #1 are the same, and those labled #2 are the same but not the same as a#1. check the instruction to be sure , better too little than too much.

[dave zac]

Tenderquick will do a nice job, just follow the manufactures instructions. every cure is not the same strength as far as nitrate is concerned. most cures labled #1 are the same, and those labled #2 are the same but not the same as a#1. check the instruction to be sure , better too little than too much.

So are there recipes that you cure the meat twice? First you use cure #1, than later apply cure #2?

How do you know when it has cured long enough?

Dave

[wittdog]

No Dave cure one and two are used for different applications....cure 1 is typically used when you are smoking something....cure 2 is used when you are going to dry cure something. Tender Quick contains Salt, Sugar, other stuff and I believe both cure 1 and 2....at the very least it contains cure 1.

The difference in cures is the difference between nitrates and nitrites

[dave zac]

Thanks for the info wittdog. I see we are almost neighbors on this side of the pond.

MTC does contain both nitrates and nitrites so I guess it is #1 and #2 for overall general applications.

Do you get better results from using only #1 if smoking? Rather than something like MTC that contains both?

Dave

[wittdog]

Yeah you are only about 2 hrs from me.

Its not so much that you get better results for using only cure 1 instead of the TQ...I think its easier to figure out amonts for recipes. TQ has a certain amount of cure with the other stuff like salt and sugar. So you need to figure out how much TQ to use...how much salt and sugar to cut back on...Whereas with the cure you use 2tsp per 10lbs of meat...and typically 4-8TBLs of Salt depending on the recipe.....I hope I'm making this clear...I work nights and have yet to been to bed.

The other thing is the FDA does not recomend the use of cure 2 for bacon....but it depends on how you are processing your bacon...it gets kind of complicated...I would recomment this book http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp?P ... ProdID=413
its known in some parts as the sasuagemaking Bible

[dave zac]

Yeah you are only about 2 hrs from me.

Its not so much that you get better results for using only cure 1 instead of the TQ...I think its easier to figure out amonts for recipes. TQ has a certain amount of cure with the other stuff like salt and sugar. So you need to figure out how much TQ to use...how much salt and sugar to cut back on...Whereas with the cure you use 2tsp per 10lbs of meat...and typically 4-8TBLs of Salt depending on the recipe.....I hope I'm making this clear...I work nights and have yet to been to bed.

The other thing is the FDA does not recomend the use of cure 2 for bacon....but it depends on how you are processing your bacon...it gets kind of complicated...I would recomment this book http://www.sausagemaker.com/index.asp?P ... ProdID=413
its known in some parts as the sasuagemaking Bible

Thanks for the resource...book is ordered. Hopefully that will answer lots of my questions.

From your reply, it still sounds like I should have added more salt and sure to the TC, no? I did not do that...just used the TC.

[Iamarealbigdog]

Dave,

We use tenderquick on our bacon and dry cures, we use cure 1 for our brines and smoked sausages.

I am drifting away from the TQ while very easy to use and produces great results if I have all the ingredients why am I duplicating my inventory.



Who has a substitute recipe for TQ

[wheels]

I started my very first venison ham last week and I am seemingly more confused by cure recipes / ratios than when I started. I had a homemade cure recipe I found on this site for venison ham that I was going to use. The recipe called for the finished cure to be applied at an amount of 1 tablespoon per pound and cure for 3 days per pound. Well, I couldn't find nitrate in time when I butchered my deer so I used Morton Tender quick. The package calls for application of 1/2 tablespoon per pound.

Why the big difference? I assume it may be because of the percentage of salt and nitrate but that is only a guess. I would have thought all recipes were generally the same as a commercially available curing product.

Is Tender quick not the right stuff to use on a 6 pound ham??

Dave

Dave

Ingredients

Morton Tenderquick
Salt
Sugar
0.5% Sodium Nitrite (preservative)
0.5% Sodium Nitrate (preservative)
Propylene Glycol
From here and here.

Cure #1 AKA Prague Powder #1, Instacure #1
Sodium Nitrite 6.25%
Salt 93.75%

Cure #2 AKA Prague Powder #2, Instacure #2
Sodium Nitrite 6.25%
Sodium Nitrate 4%
Salt 89.75%

Why the big difference? I assume it may be because of the percentage of salt and nitrate but that is only a guess.

You can see from the above that you are correct - cures #1 and #2 contain far more Nitrite/Nitrate than Tenderquick - they are not interchangeable - the amounts used will be different.

Phil

[saucisson]

You would add your cure #1 or #2 to salt and sugar to make up the final cure. For instance I use 2.5g cure #1, 10g sugar and 25g salt per kg of meat when dry curing bacon.

Dave

[dave zac]

thanks all...I am hooked!

This is a wonderful companion to my wine making "habit". You folks are fantastic

[dave zac]

OK, my recipe for venison ham calls for dry cure and smoking and calls for saltpetre (amongst others) to cure, cold smoke and bake.

I want to cure, cold smoke and hang and age. Should I use cure #2 instead of cure #1 because of the aging and not cooking? I will of course adjust for salt in either cure to accommodate recipe salt requirements. anything to watch out for?

Dave

[dave zac]

Well I finished my first hams.Two 6 pound venison hams rubbed in Morton Tender Quick and rerubbed with brown sugar and MTC after 2 weeks and left for another week. I then cold smoked with maple for 20 hours in my improvised refrigerator smoker with an old BBQ top as an offset. I ate one Christmas eve and everyone seemed pretty pleased.

The outside was almost harsh though...too strong. Could that be from having trouble controlling the temperature? Sometime it got away from me and rose to 140F.

The other was given to friends and saved for lentils and ham or beans and ham.

I now have two 10 pound venison hams curing using a recipe with cure #2 and spices. One is intended to be a Parma style ham and the other a country ham. They have both been curing for about 3 weeks now. I am concerned about too low humidity though and the pitfalls of such when I hang them in a week or so. I will try to document with photos.

Wish me luck eh?

[saucisson]

OK, my recipe for venison ham calls for dry cure and smoking and calls for saltpetre (amongst others) to cure, cold smoke and bake.

I want to cure, cold smoke and hang and age. Should I use cure #2 instead of cure #1 because of the aging and not cooking?

Dave

Yes, and good luck

Dave

[Mike D]

You would add your cure #1 or #2 to salt and sugar to make up the final cure. For instance I use 2.5g cure #1, 10g sugar and 25g salt per kg of meat when dry curing bacon.

Dave, If I were to make this cure up into a pre mix batch of say 1kg, I would just use it 37.5g per Kg of pork? In the same way as I use the ready made stuff from the site (which is 40g per Kg of meat)