need a brine recipe

[fatnhappy]

It's been a long time since I smoked trout or salmon and thought I'd ask here for some tips. The salmon are starting to run in the Lake Ontario tribs. I'm thinking I'd like to have some smoked salmon set aside for christmas eve.

[Chuckwagon]

Hey Hey Fatnhappy,
Great photos. Great kids too. Those fish are almost big enough to saddle up and ride. I'll bet you never thought a dry, desert-dusty, land-locked lubber like me would have a recipe for fish eh? This one is for fresh or saltwater fish of most any type. I really like Alder smoke with this stuff. Next choice would be hickory, then any fruitwood. Our mesquite is too strong for delicate fish. Good luck.
Best Wishes, Chuckwagon

Smoking Fish
The first step is to remove excess blood in the fish. Place fish fillets into a solution of two gallons of water supersaturated with four cups of uniodized salt, allowing the mixture to filter out excess blood. After forty-five minutes, rinse the fillets completely in fresh water then prepare a brining solution.

Brining Solution:
2 gallons water
1-1/2 lbs. uniodized salt
1 lb. white sugar
4 level tspns. Prague Powder #1
1-1/2 oz. black peppercorns (crushed)
1 oz. bay leaves (crushed)

Heat the brine to 100°F. Remove the pot from the heat and soak the fish in the brine three hours before rinsing it in cold running water. Hang and drip-dry the fish three hours in a well-ventilated area while a pellicle develops. Place the dry fish into a smokehouse and introduce light alder or hickory smudge at 120°F. for several hours. Taste the fish to determine the intensity of smoke flavor. Continue heating, (with more smoke if desired) gradually increasing the smokehouse temperature to 140 degress F. Hold this temperature until a glossy, mahogany finish is developed on the surface of the fish in about three more hours. The partially- cooked, wholly smoked fish is then gradually cooled in open air for six hours before being refrigerated. Remember, smoked fish is perishable and it should be refrigerated and consumed within thirty days.
P.S. Don't forget to take some photos of the fish and let us know how it turned out.
Chuckwagon

[fatnhappy]

thanks chuckwagon. Those fish are already in the freezer. fortunately there's plenty more where they came from. I'll be using apple wood and alder. Around Lake Ontario apples are inexhaustable.

[DangerDan]

I've had a lot of good words on this one:

Danger Dan’s Brine for Salmon

In a 5 gal bucket add 3 gal. water
3 cups Morton’s Kosher Salt
1 cup white sugar
2 cups brown sugar
2 Tbls. Garlic Powder
1 lb. Honey
1/3 cup lime juice
1/4 cup soy sauce
1/4 cup Worchester Sauce

Give it a try sometime if ya like. Awsome stuff!

[Iamarealbigdog]

First and formost, what type of smoked salmon do you want

Cold

Semi hot smoked

Or hot smoked / planked

very different texture on all three and all very nice on their own merit

[Chuckwagon]

Hey Danger Dan,
Your brine looks like it is mighty tasty. I'll bet the limejuice and the honey with worchestershire tap dance on your tongue eh? You've convinced me, but I am really concerned that the recipe does not contain an actual cure such as sodium nitrite (cure #1). If the fish is smoked, oxygen is cut off, and at warm temperatures, botulinal growth could be a real problem. I realize there is a lot of salt in the recipe - but not enough to kill botulinae (the amount would render it unpalatable).
Id' like to see what Phil Young recommends on this one.
Best wishes, Chuckwagon

[Iamarealbigdog]

Chuckwagon, no worries on that recipe. It is very similar to mine as listed below.

1 gallon cold water
1 quart soy sauce
1 cup kosher salt
2 Lbs brown sugar
2 Tbsp garlic powder
3 Tbsp cayenne pepper

Spices to please

I will add bay leaves coriander dill and fennel what ever I feel like for that season, I have favorites but it up to the individual to decide what they like. I will brine for 12 -24 hours wit a rest from 24 - 36 to build the pectin

The smoke will preserve the meat somewhat, it still needs to be kept cold in the fridge. Salt is the only cure used here...

Really tasty process...

[wheels]

Hey Danger Dan,
...Id' like to see what Phil Young recommends on this one.

It's not my area really, others are far better placed to advise. One of the problems is that the long and slow method of hot smoking has not been that commonplace in the UK. Fish has traditionally been salted then cold smoked, with protection solely from weight loss (reduced Water Activity).

Hot smoking has generally been done quickly (certainly by home smokers) maybe 20 - 30 minutes to a fully cooked product; as far as I am aware nitrate/nitrite is not used.

At least that is my experience anyway; whether commercially it is used, I couldn't say. It's an area where I always look to you guys in the US for advice and guidance.

This is what the FAO (UN) have to say about it:

http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5945e/ ... ed%20trout

HTH

Phil

[Iamarealbigdog]

Chuckwagon,

Your cooking process is perfect for what we call semi-hot smoked. If your not grilling or planking (very light smoke flavor) you will need 5-6 hours in the smoker as mentioned 2 hrs at 120,(f) then 2 hrs at 140 and then 160 to finish. Never hang the salmon as soon as it start to cook it will fall off the hook and there will be a mess to contend with as well as a loss to mucho salmon. In this process we also cut the salmon into two inch portions to get more smoke and cook evenly


Cheers

[saucisson]

As I understand it botulinum are soil bacteria from terra firma so are unlikely to be in fish before processing. As such fish are never cured with any nitrogenous input in the UK, just salt, good hygiene and flavourings, with the intention that salt and temperature will stop any contaminating botulinum that may get on the outside of the fish during processing.
Dave

[Oddley]

As I understand it botulinum are soil bacteria from terra firma so are unlikely to be in fish before processing. As such fish are never cured with any nitrogenous input in the UK, just salt, good hygiene and flavourings, with the intention that salt and temperature will stop any contaminating botulinum that may get on the outside of the fish during processing.

Dave I thought you might be interested in the extract below, from here.

Perhaps it might engender some research by the forum, or at least provoke some discussion.

Clostridium botulinum type E is an indigenous organism in the aquatic environment and is the type mainly associated with botulism from seafood products. This section outlines what is currently known about the organism and its behavior in cold-smoked fish. Major findings of importance to the safety of cold-smoked fish and the control of C. botulinum type E are included. While the section provides some of the data relevant for a science-based risk assessment, it does not give complete information on all four components: hazard identification, hazard characterization, exposure assessment, and risk characterization. Recent book chapters about the organism in Lund and Peck (2000) and Dodds and Austin (1997) cover these issues in greater depth. This section ends with lists of conclusions and research needs.

[saucisson]

Well smack me with a cold fish

Seems that once again I need to do some research, thanks Oddley. I'll report back in due course.

Dave

[wheels]

My apologies, I assumed that Chuckwagon was referring to hot smoking. If that is the case this article on Clostridium Botulinum in fish from the Torry Research Station may help:

http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5902e/ ... 20botulism

...also their advisory note on Hot Smoking Fish:

http://www.fao.org/wairdocs/tan/x5953e/x5953e00.htm

There are many others available.

The more worrying issue may be, not the smoking, but the storage afterwards; vac-package fish can be very dangerous if not stored properly.

The issue of cold smoking and botulism was discussed here:

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=3959

But it could be a good idea to revisit the subject as Oddley suggests.

Phil

[DangerDan]

While I've never seen a recipe using Cure #1 with exception of the one posted earlier it might be a good idea if one worries about Clostridium Botulinum in fish. I usually cold smoke for about 10 hours then raise the temps to finish round about 175-180*F for about two hours. I've never had a problem with smoking salmon & trout using that recipe.