cold smoking in plastic

[tinca]

i was wondering if i could use a refuse bin made of plastic as a cold smoking vessel IE were the meat will hang and smoke , connected via a flexible pipe to the smoker, just wanted to know if there are any hygiene issues with it
I FANK NOO Gaz

[wheels]

I'm not sure. I used 5 gallon food grade beer fermenters. Given the temperatures though, I can't see that there could be much reaction with the plastic.

What are you trying to smoke?

Phil

[tinca]

I'm not sure. I used 5 gallon food grade beer fermenters. Given the temperatures though, I can't see that there could be much reaction with the plastic.

What are you trying to smoke?

Phil

Hi Phil

Would be smoking dry cured bacon, the temps are a little confusing though as over the net ive seen from 65f to 120f for cold smoking all saying the winter months to stop the smoke chamber from over heating which shouldnt be a problem , im using a contraption i made based on the porkys smoker via a 100mm duct of around a mtr or so into the plastic bin, i cant see any problems with over heating as ive even picked up the smoker with my hands when its been on the go and the top is just warmish, i might have problems actually keeping a high enough temps if its the case of certain temps to the cold smoking.And another thing is , how much smoke is needed , and the airflow through the chamber, again some say little air flow other say good air flow Obversely you want clean smoke around your meat not stagnant smoke so flow is important, but the density of it is confusing Gaz

[wheels]

I disagree with whoever said 120F. I would work to a maximum of around 80 - 85°F for most things.

As for the amount of smoke, my understanding (and the way I do it) is that traditional cold smoking uses a constant trickle of smoke passing over the food - that is, the smoke leaves the chamber at the same rate as it enters. Too much smoke, or 'stale' smoke can lead to a bitter product.

I am aware that Bradley smokers use more smoke and still produce a very good product though.

If you are using a system like the Porkypa I am surprised that your container gets warm (ish), perhaps the 100mm pipe is too wide?

Maybe Dave or someone else who uses similar can advise?

Phil

[saucisson]

I think he means the burner unit where the smoke is generated, that's perfectly acceptable and the smoke normally chills down to ambient by the time it enters the food storage chamber.

I've smoked at as low as -4 deg C but I don't recommend it as my fingers got bloody cold when I went out to check the food

Dave

[tinca]

Thanks for the advice chaps my smoking device is alittle more cruder than porkys its a stainless steel flask thats been mullered, i first tried it with a 15mm hole in th top "cup"and a small salmon tin at the bottom with a air pump pushing air up through holes in the bot of the flask, this went via 15mm copper pipe to my incinerator which was capped up around the edges, as its got holes, some the smoke went in the bottom and out through th top outlet which i put a clay pot with a hole in on top but i was having problems keeping it alight and with a rather bitter taste to the meat, the wood seemed to get wet .I have tried without the 15mm pipe and an open top to the flask and it gives plenty of smoke with the pump on , so i might have to do away with the pump unless its to just get it going, the 100mm flexipipe will fit over the top of the flask quite nicely, so no worries there, its amatter of getting the right lenth of flexipipe to the bin as i dont want to end up with wet wood again giving the orrible taste to the meat, i thought a plastic bin would be ok and cheap compare to a metal dustbin, the smoke should be cool enough not to cause any problems with reaction as far as tempture is concerned , only worry is the smoke and plastic, but wont the smoke coat the side and seal it, as long as the meat dosnt come in contact i should be ok i hope.I fink regulating the smoke from the flask is going to be the problem Gaz

[tinca]

I disagree with whoever said 120F. I would work to a maximum of around 80 - 85°F for most things.

As for the amount of smoke, my understanding (and the way I do it) is that traditional cold smoking uses a constant trickle of smoke passing over the food - that is, the smoke leaves the chamber at the same rate as it enters. Too much smoke, or 'stale' smoke can lead to a bitter product.

I am aware that Bradley smokers use more smoke and still produce a very good product though.

If you are using a system like the Porkypa I am surprised that your container gets warm (ish), perhaps the 100mm pipe is too wide?

Maybe Dave or someone else who uses similar can advise?

Phil

I thought cold smoking was exactly that cold but as far as how much smoke is concerned its a bit baffling as smoke will go in a straight line with the airflow so you must need to restrict the airflow or divert it over yer meat, i have enough sense to know if no airflow is in the smoking chamber then you could end up with a bitter tasting bit of meat :l but ive seen alot of smokers and vids of smoking on the net which does seem to contredict itself, some are full to the brim with smoke other not so, can you fast smoke another point is how long does a trickle smoke take, surely would it take a long time to smoke say a bacon joint, Could the reason for the warmish flask maybe due to the fact im using chips rather than dust and theres to much air getting around the chips, were as dust has smaller spaces between the pieces of wood:?: Gaz

[wheels]

I guess it's all down to personal preference. I trickle smoke for reasonably long periods, others choose to give things a blast of smoke for a shorter period. With fish where you need weight loss for food safety reasons I believe it's important. Others treat the smoked fish as a fresh product and so aren't so concerned with this aspect.

I like a light smoke flavour so smoke cheese/hard boiled eggs etc for 6 hours, streaky bacon 24 hours, back bacon around 36 - 48 hours, I've never smoked a ham but would do so for at least 3-4 days. I always rest any smoked product in the fridge for at least a day to let the flavours develop/penetrate. What I aim for is my smoking chamber to have plenty of plenty of smoke inside and a trickle of smoke entering it and a trickle of smoke leaving it.

I can't advise on the suitability of using non-food grade plastics long term, we did have a member who was very knowledgeable about such things but I can't remember who it was. Could you not use a wooden box?

HTH

Phil

[tinca]

I guess it's all down to personal preference. I trickle smoke for reasonably long periods, others choose to give things a blast of smoke for a shorter period. With fish where you need weight loss for food safety reasons I believe it's important. Others treat the smoked fish as a fresh product and so aren't so concerned with this aspect.

I like a light smoke flavour so smoke cheese/hard boiled eggs etc for 6 hours, streaky bacon 24 hours, back bacon around 36 - 48 hours, I've never smoked a ham but would do so for at least 3-4 days. I always rest any smoked product in the fridge for at least a day to let the flavours develop/penetrate. What I aim for is my smoking chamber to have plenty of plenty of smoke inside and a trickle of smoke entering it and a trickle of smoke leaving it.

I can't advise on the suitability of using non-food grade plastics long term, we did have a member who was very knowledgeable about such things but I can't remember who it was. Could you not use a wooden box?

HTH

Phil

Phil

I hate to have to pay out on something i can get cheaper as for a wooden box if i can find one locally i would grab it if its cheap, i like to make do with recycling as much as possible, if ive got something hanging around i will modify it to some use, the wife wont go for an old fridge otherwise i would get one from the local refuse center, might have to modify the incinerator yet again, its going to look like some one has had ago at it with a machine gun soon with all the drill holes the inside is well cooked as ive used it lately as a barby, but now have to get the cast iron barby i put inside out after putting in some rods to hold the racks forgot to see if one could get the iron barby out first seeing as it wont hold heat i could just use gaffer tape to plug the gapes and holes i suppose, abit of a bodge but hay it should work One other problem with the lid of the incinerator is it leaks smoke quite abit, got some fire retardent foam that should stick to the lid, just hope no toxins come off it, well its the fun and games with these things that make it enjoyable when it all comes together and works Fingers crossed. Gaz

[wheels]

Gaz

In simple terms, as you have a device that will produce smoke with virtually no heat, all you have to do is connect it to a suitable container, hang the product in it, and it should be OK.

The container could be your plastic bin, a barrel, covered BBQ, or your incinerator. If the lid don't fit - use a sack over the top.

I fear I have made out cold smoking to be more complex than it actually is. Yes, long term you may want to refine your arrangements, but it's one of those things that seems mysterious and worrying, but in reality ain't rocket science!

My beer brewing barrel set up is on my blog, it used a soldering iron in a bean tin (ala Saucisson) but got some good bacon from it. Have a look and you'll see that your smoke production unit is far superior and that with the bits and bobs you already have, you could do something similar.

http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/weblog ... =my_weblog

Phil

[tinca]

Gaz

In simple terms, as you have a device that will produce smoke with virtually no heat, all you have to do is connect it to a suitable container, hang the product in it, and it should be OK.

The container could be your plastic bin, a barrel, covered BBQ, or your incinerator. If the lid don't fit - use a sack over the top.

I fear I have made out cold smoking to be more complex than it actually is. Yes, long term you may want to refine your arrangements, but it's one of those things that seems mysterious and worrying, but in reality ain't rocket science!

My beer brewing barrel set up is on my blog, it used a soldering iron in a bean tin (ala Saucisson) but got some good bacon from it. Have a look and you'll see that your smoke production unit is far superior and that with the bits and bobs you already have, you could do something similar.

http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/weblog ... =my_weblog



Phil

Got one of those beer fermenters in the garden used it for potatoes, if you can keep the temp low enough in your design then i should "finger crossed " be ok.Will be getting a few bits and pieces this week including the cures so one will see how it goes , thankis for the help and advice

[wheels]

Tinca

I know that you have inferred that you are 'short in the arms and long in the pocket' when it comes to paying for equipment, but I would seriously suggest that you consider the smoke generator on the other thread you have posted on.

The reason so many of us are raving about it is that we've been at the same stage that you are now, done it ourselves, and realised that it's cost us much more than the £25 that it would have done if the product had been available at that time.

When you've been in the garden every 2 or 3 hours on a cold wet day, it's like a God-send.

Either way, keep us posted about how you get on.

Phil

[tinca]

Tinca

I know that you have inferred that you are 'short in the arms and long in the pocket' when it comes to paying for equipment, but I would seriously suggest that you consider the smoke generator on the other thread you have posted on.

The reason so many of us are raving about it is that we've been at the same stage that you are now, done it ourselves, and realised that it's cost us much more than the £25 that it would have done if the product had been available at that time.

When you've been in the garden every 2 or 3 hours on a cold wet day, it's like a God-send.

Either way, keep us posted about how you get on.

Phil

I see yer point Phil , but i dont mind the cold and wet , must be the bit of canadian in me, hate the sun I just love building stuff but dont have the money or facilities to do it, need a shed

[wheels]

In that case, go for it!

Please post to let us know how you get on.

Phil