Salmon from Montreal Chinatown + question

[Hoggy]

After a search on the Internet about fresh fish markets in Montreal, I ended up today in Chinatown. There is a small basement store, and they have 5 fish tanks with live fish. A real Chinese store, with real Chinese people, only Chinese customers, a lot of live lobsters , and not expensive. You pick your fish, they take it out, on the scale for the price, and they then clean it for you.... I have been more in Chinatown, and to be honest, this was the first " fresh-food " store that had a normal smell.....

Didn't see any salmon, so I asked for it ( there was only 1 who spoke a bit English, but that's enough...). He opened the blanket of the display counter and THERE IT WAS......a beauty on ice....about 90 cm long and still in one piece. I could take the part I wanted, and they would filet it for me....wow.... So I took a part of the tale, he took a BIG CHOP butchers knife, cut it, and with the same knife he made the filets. But before, he cleaned the whole counter with water, I felt better and better. I only had to take 3 small bones out, that he missed with his mega knife, not bad.

I paid CDN$ 11.40 per kilo, or £ 7.13 per kilo. No taxes, and they round the price down, as I ended up with the filets below, each 1 kilo clean, and I paid CDN$ 20.40 or £ 12.77 for both.
This is the second time I cold smoke salmon in my new extreme weather smoker, I do a dry cure and place food canister in food canister, and I have drilled holes in the top one on the sides, so the liquid drains into the bottom container. Lost 9.5% first time in an overnight cure, so that is correct I guess.

My question : my first salmon tasted excellent, but was dry on the outside, inside was correct and the taste was FASTASTIC. I smoked for 18 hours with the ProQ and inside temperature was 16 C - 18 C
Did I smoke too long, or is it normal that it gets dry ? I did not saran wrap it after the smoker, it went in the fridge on a tray, and before to smoke I let it dry in the fridge.



For the people who are interested in the shop in Chinatown:

The full name and address are:

Hap Hing Shing Trading Corporation
1021A, boulevard Saint-Laurent, Montreal, QC H2Z 1J4, Canada. The phone number is (514) 878-3001‎. About three steps below de la Gauchetiere on the east side of the street. They are in the basement right next door to Chez Bong.

Hoggy

[grisell]

Oh yes, it gets dry and hard on the surface after smoking. That's normal. Just trim the layer off. It should mature 3-4 days (before trimming) in the refrigerator after smoking before consumption to "equalize" the smoke. That makes a great difference.

This is how I make it: http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... ked+salmon

[probbq]

I usually smoke Salmon for around 12 hours, or as long as 1 load of the CSG will go for. My favorite wood for fish is Beech.
By the way Hoggy, I love your thinking on the extreme weather smoker.

[Hoggy]

grisel wrote:

Oh yes, it gets dry and hard on the surface after smoking. That's normal. Just trim the layer off.

What a waste to trim it off, I am happy that these " babies " are 28 mm thick, instead of 15 mm....something to think about for buying again.

It should mature 3-4 days (before trimming) in the refrigerator after smoking before consumption to "equalize" the smoke. That makes a great difference.

The first piece didn't have a chance, after one day it was gone. But these will wait 3 days in the fridge, although it will be hard.

probbq wrote:

I usually smoke Salmon for around 12 hours, or as long as 1 load of the CSG will go for. My favorite wood for fish is Beech

Yes, I will go for 12 - 14 hours as well, but I will use apple.

They are drying in the fridge right now, after 13 hours in the fridge curing, again 9.5% weight loss.

Thank you for your comments.
Hoggy

[saucisson]

I've never had to trim anything post smoke,
My salmon gets hard and dry if I leave it uncovered in the fridge for too long ie days and weeks, it certainly doesn't overnight in the smoker...

I think leaving it uncovered in the fridge is your problem here...

[grisell]

Are we still talking cold smoking? My fillets always got a hard browm layer after 20 hours in the smoke. (?)

[saucisson]

I think so Andre... Maybe my damp soggy English climate prevents this...

[Hoggy]

For me, the brown layer is there when it comes out of the smoker. It is like a dark rubber layer, around 1 - 1.5 mm think and it gets hard uncovered in the fridge overnight.

Dave, didn't I read somewhere that you take the salmon straight in the smoker, and not let it dry overnight. ?

[saucisson]

Yes, you did read that, thanks for reminding me, I find it better that way. I suspect mine you have to treat more like a fresh product, though, so my way is probably not as good for long term storage...

[Hoggy]

So here are my 2 cents ( pennies...) on the hard layer on the outside of the salmon.

First attempt:

I dried the salmon overnight for around 16 hours, and there was a really thick pellicle on the surface. I smoked for 18 hours and the end result was the thick pellicle was dark and hard. The taste, after removing the pellicle was excellent. ( AFTER removing the pellicle )

I thought I over-smoked the salmon, considering the small smoker I have. So I asked my question here on the forum. NO PICTURES, SORRY

Second attempt: ( this was during our forum discussion...)

I kept the salmon only 5 hours in the fridge, and there was a pellicle all over, not as thick as the first time, but all over, so I decided to start smoking. I smoked for 22 hours ( 4 hours more than the first time, same temperature etc etc....) and here is the end result:



Only a thin layer of pellicle and no dark color......I will keep it in the fridge for 3 days, and will try it, but as it seems now, I do not need to take off the pellicle, that would be a good thing. I might even try to wash it or put something on it, to eliminate the ( probably ) stronger taste of the small layer.

Here is the second picture, you can clearly see the colorization of the smoke into the salmon, but on the outside it is still nice red, not dark like the first time. I cut of a small piece, in the name of science......and the pellicle was thin and soft, is easy to cut through, you can taste the smoke concentration. but on the other hand, I had little salmon, and a lot of pellicle on the cut.




I think I will brush one with whiskey, and the other one perhaps with maple syrup, after the 3 days. Dave, I don't want to take any risk in using the wrong whiskey, can you send me a bottle ?

, but of course the less it dries the more you have to treat it like a fresh product...

If I slice afterwards, and freeze in vacuum, there should be no problem Dave ?

Hoggy

[saucisson]

I think I will brush one with whiskey, and the other one perhaps with maple syrup, after the 3 days. Dave, I don't want to take any risk in using the wrong whiskey, can you send me a bottle ?

, but of course the less it dries the more you have to treat it like a fresh product...

If I slice afterwards, and freeze in vacuum, there should be no problem Dave ?

Hoggy

Looks like you cracked it Hoggy, where do I need to send that bottle of Talisker to? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talisker)

Slice, vacuum and freeze and it will last for ages. Of course it's always nicest if you don't need to freeze it...

[grisell]

Don't take this the wrong way, please, but have you looked for some Norwegian farmed salmon? IMO they are superior to all.

[grisell]

Hoggy, I'm sorry to say this and I hope you don't take this the wrong way. This is in no way personal.

When I look at your smoked salmon, I can see at once that that is not a genuine salmon, i.e. Salmo Salar. The genuine salmon has a fat content and a structure that is unique. I'm not saying that your smoked fish is bad, but if you feel that ther is something missing, it's not your smoking, it's the fish. With that fish it's just hopeless. We get it sometimes here too, it's Oncorhynchus, not Salmo, a totally different species from salmon, but they sell it as "Pacific Salmon"

I have to be honest here. You must have the right fish, otherwise the project is hopeless.

Please excuse me if I seem rude, I just want to help.

[Hoggy]

This is in no way personal.

I don't take comments personal, as long as they are intended to be helpful, I simply ask for comments, as I still have a lot to learn.

When I look at your smoked salmon, I can see at once that that is not a genuine salmon, i.e. Salmo Salar. The genuine salmon has a fat content and a structure that is unique.

Perhaps you are right, perhaps not. It sure looked like a salmon, and for sure it tastes like a salmon.

With that fish it's just hopeless.

What is hopeless grisell?

We get it sometimes here too, it's Oncorhynchus

I googled that name and almost all salmon spicies carry that name in their full name.

It was sold as Atlantic salmon, not Pacific salmon, and I am 100% convinced that if I would do it again, with a " real " salmon, the outcome of the pellicle test would be the same, as I cheched the forming of the pellicle during the drying of the first salmon after a few hours, and it developed in the same speed as with my " fake " salmon, so I do not think the outcome will be much different.

I agree that Norwegian salmon is not bad, I had it many times when I lived in Europe ( for 47 years...), but they don't sell it overhere.

Thank you for your comments, perhaps you should try a shorter drying time as well....it's never too late to learn.

Hoggy

[grisell]

Ok, sorry. I didn't know that the Norwegian variety isn't sold in Canada. When I said hopeless I just meant that if you were to replicate the smoked salmon bought in delicatessen you have to have the right fish.

I just reacted because here in Sweden we have some really bad 'salmon copies' as we use to call them and people get fooled all the time when they buy them on discount. I have had some really bad experiences with Oncorhyncus in the past. According to Swedish law, only Salmo Salar is allowed to be called salmon. In Sweden we take this very seriously because smoked and cured salmon ("gravlax") are obligatory on the smörgåsbord.

But I am on thin ice here. I have never been to Canada so I don't know very much about your fish. I'm certain though that they must be much better than the junk they sell here on discount, labeled 'Canada'. Maybe you export the stuff you don't want to eat yourselves?

Again, nothing personal, just from some bad experience.