What is the MINIMUM cold smoke temperature inside smoker ?

[Hoggy]

Can someone tell me what is the minimum temperature for cold smoking ?

A lot is written about the absolute maximum, and many times a small range is given, but " how low can we go ? "

And going lower, does it have effect on the result / smoking time ?

Hoggy

[tristar]

Hi Hoggy,

I have read somewhere that there is a minimum temperature for cold smoking because it causes some undesirable elements of the complex mixture of smoke compounds to condense on the meat surface. I believe that one of the undesirable elements is kreosote, which causes bitterness in the final product.

I will search again and see if I can find the article, then post a link here.

Richard

[Ianinfrance]

I've wonder about this too. Did you forget, Richard?

[Darius]

Hmmmmm, that might be why the cheese I smoked 2 weeks ago has a slightly bitter overtone. I think it was about 38-40ºF outside and I doubt the smoker box hot above 45ºF, if that.

[tristar]

Sorry Guys, I didn't forget, I simply haven't been able to find the article again. There is plenty of evidence around that low temperatures can cause bitterness. It seems to occur when the temperature of the item being smoked is lower than the moist smoke condensation temperature. I would imagine that there are a number of variables at play and it would not be easy to come up with a simple go / no-go temperature. It is probably related to RH.

I recently cold smoked some meat, cheese and nuts when it was -2 C. The meat was bitter, the cheese was slightly acrid, but improved after some storage, but the nuts were delicious, I can only put this down to the relative temperatures of the smoked items with the meat being coldest, followed by the cheese, and with the nuts at room temperature being warmest.

[saucisson]

Thinking about it, my more acrid smokes have been when there is a lot of condensation on the walls of the smoker, and hence probably low temperatures.

[BriCan]

Cold smoking 52 - 71 degrees F. That being said we do the high 80s

I will follow up on this later anyone with the following book will find it useful

http://www.amazon.ca/Smoking-Smokehouse ... 374&sr=1-1

[Ryan C]

Hoggy,

On the Marianskis website they say the minimum temperature for cold smoking is -2 C since this is the point at which meat freezes. I think your main issues at these temperatures will be that the curing process will slow down so you may need to adjust your curing times accordingly. This website is fantastic and I think you may find some interesting reading here:http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-making/curing

All the best

Ryan

[tristar]

Hi Ryan,

I can't agree with the Maranski's on this one, I just don't think you can make a definitive statement like -2 degrees C. If you are using a larger smoke generator which transfers some heat to the process this may be ok, however if you are using a small smoke generator which doesn't transfer any heat, I think you will find that the meat will be too cold and condensation will precipitate creosotes and make the smoked product bitter.

This has certainly been my experience anyway.

[grisell]

I'm not sure about that, tristar. Smoke concentrates (e.g. Liquid Smoke) are made from condensated smoke and they don't taste bitter. But I'm no expert on this. Or did I misunderstand you?

[tristar]

Andre,

With condensation, as with distillation, differing compounds will surely condense at different temperatures. My belief is that at lower temperatures the creosote compounds have a higher tendency to condense onto the surface of cold meat, leaving a higher concentration of bitter compounds.

We cannot do a direct comparison with liquid smoke, as the smoke is actually bubbled through water and all the aromatic compounds are trapped in the water together with the ash, there is no concentration of the more bitter aromatics.

The liquid smoke is then processed, it is quite likely that some of the creosote compounds will not be miscible or soluble in water and they will possibly be removed with the ash and oily tars during this process.

[grisell]

Got that. Thanks!

[Ryan C]

With condensation, as with distillation, differing compounds will surely condense at different temperatures. My belief is that at lower temperatures the creosote compounds have a higher tendency to condense onto the surface of cold meat, leaving a higher concentration of bitter compounds.

I'm sorry but this is a bit beyond my knowledge . Although in the past I have successfully smoked at below zero temperatures without any bitter effects. However this is probably because I used the ProQ which only produces a small trickle of smoke and not enough for the meat/fish to gain a bitter outer layer.
Also, I remember camping in summer years ago and cooking our food on a pine wood fire. All our sausages were ruined by a bitter creosote-like taste even though it was warm and they were only cooking for a few minutes. Since then I've always associated the bitterness with using the wrong type of wood and over-smoking.
Tristar, I'm sure your knowledge in this area far exceeds mine however I have noticed that if the meat is colder than the smoking chamber then water condenses on the meat at first, It appears (to me) that this water then absorbs quite a lot of smoke before drying off and leaving small patches of slightly bitter flavours. To counteract this I just make sure the meat and smoking chamber are the same temperature.
Please note I am a relative newbie and I am happy to be corrected on any of these points

All the best

Ryan

[tristar]

Hi Ryan,

What you have just said about cooking and or smoking over pine wood has been said a number of times on this forum and others, but "Black Forest Hams" which are the highest volume sold of any ham in Europe are smoked over pine! and they have none of the bitterness ascribed by others to foods smoked or cooked over pine.

[Gill]

There again, the term 'pine' covers a multitude of sins, especially if you buy it from one of the DIY sheds! I believe the problem with smoking meat over pine is the resin content of the wood. Perhaps the pines in the Black Forest have a lower resin content than others. I wonder what types of fir trees populate that region?