Smoking Temperature Plateau

[Jogeephus]

I'd like to see if anyone can explain or give me some other ideas concerning a stuck smoke I am dealing with at the moment. On Thursday I started working on some lunch meat and stuffed 10 lbs of veal bologna, 13 lbs of capricola and 10 lbs of turkey into 4.75" synthetic bolgna casings. I placed them in a preheated smoker and let gradually increased the temp to 180F. Everything started off without a hitch but then each ran into its temperature platueaus. I'm used to these stalls but this stall lasted for hours and hours. The bologna was made with veal and was very lean and it stalled for maybe two hours then went to cooking and finished in about 12 hours. However the capricola and the turkey stayed in a stall for several hours before it finally began creeping up. At 4:00 - 25 hours later - the capricola reached 150 and was pulled. Its now 5:00 and the turkey has another 9 degrees to go before it reaches 160. I'm guesstimating it will take another 3 hours to reach the target temp which will mean I have a total of 29 hours in the turkey which if far longer than I expected.

Anyone have any ideas. At the moment I know that the casing size has something to do with it but that doesn't explain why the bologna cooked off and the others stayed on the plateau. The only common denominator in these two sausages is that both recipes called for the use of gelatin. I've read where gelatin is made from collagen and collagen acts as a heat sink and require massive amounts of heat to break down but I'm not clear as to whether these traits transfer over to the gelatin itself or is only true in collagen. Other than this, I'm at a total loss for an explanation.

And BTW, I have checked my temps with six different digital thermometers so its not an error in measurement.

I know it really doesn't matter cause it is what it is and it will be ready when its ready but I would like to understand why if you know what I mean.

Thanks.

Oh, and this is a good example of why someone shouldn't omit curing salt.

[Big Guy]

it only happens when you are rushed for time. LOL been there and in my younger years I would crank up the temp, that would usually render out the fat and result in a greasy outside and a dry inside. Now I just leave things alone and have another beer.

[Jogeephus]

I've been guilty of that too that's why I stayed with it. The end result tasted good but it was a failure as far as binding. Everything that called for the gelatin just didn't bind right and it didn't cook right. I'm puzzled but not beaten.

[kimgary]

Interesting reading here:-

http://www.nakedwhiz.com/brisket.htm

Regards Gazza.

[NCPaul]

When gelatin is hydrated it forms a network with water. The water is held in place by hydrogen bonding between the water and the gelatin. Like a wet sponge on a molecular scale. The long plateau you observed was the very slow breakdown of the hydrated gelatin network. It took a lot of energy over a long period to break the water free. I have not noticed recipes calling for gelatin, maybe for this reason?

[Jogeephus]

NCPaul, in this network you talk about would the gelling action be diminished if the meat had too much water? Say if the company injected it? I was unable to find any turkey that wasn't bagged and "tenderized" and the pork was not my own and its was "bagged" as well. I remember thinking "the cheatin bastards" when I saw how much water I had bought in the bag. Both felt much wetter than what I normally would use. I wonder this because both of these had shrunk considerably from their original size even though I used phosphorous to prevent the shrinkage.

[Big Guy]

Well old Butter bean I think it has to do with the gelatin, I made some venison bacon (it includes gelatin) a couple of weeks ago and it also plateaued for several hours.

[Jogeephus]

My money is on that too BigGuy. That's all the more reason my next build is going to be set and forget. I enjoy tending a fire but it just don't seem right to get drunk twice in one sitting.

[DanMcG]

Interesting, I would have never guessed that a little gelatin would cause a longer then normal stall.

[Jogeephus]

Dan, I may not be right on this but as I understand it the gelatin would be like adding extra collagen so the more collagen the more the stall. What has me puzzled is I made one of the same recipes the week prior and its stall was nothing like this one. Something was different. Meat, moisture content, gelatin. Its got me puzzled so I'm fishing for ideas where ever I can.

[Wunderdave]

I heard an interview with Nathan Myhrvold who wrote Modernist Cuisine on the radio yesterday.

His explanation for the bbq "stall" is that it is caused by water, not collagen.

Myhrvold contends that the energy required to convert collagen to gelatin is not sufficient to use the amount of energy that would allow a butt or brisket to stall for two, three, or even four hours around 165 degrees F.

Instead, he says that the cause is simple evaporation from the surface of meat at that temperature. This is why, in his explanation, the tactic of foiling butts or brisket mid-cook will allow them to plow right through the stall, since evaporation from the surface of the meat is stopped.

The guys over on The Virtual Weber Bullet are big fans of a high heat brisket cook using foil that can finish in as little as 4 hours.

Just another thing to think about.

[saucisson]

That's an interesting thought Dave, thanks !!

Another Dave

[DanMcG]

Interesting thought, but my stalls on butts are down around 152°-155° f (66°-69°c) and by 165°f (74°c) it's out of it and sailing to the finish.
But none the less something to think about. Thanks for the info Dave.

[Jogeephus]

WunderDave, I think there is a lot of truth in what he said. Using this cook as an example I had to purchase some bagged pork which I thought had more water in it that it should. Along with this I used some veal I butchered myself. While the veal (bologna) did stall it didn't stall like the others that had the "extra" waster in them. Maybe this was just a case of a perfect storm cause I've never ever had a stall as long as this.