double ham curing times

[wheels]

Brican

No upset at all - your cure is just different, different levels of salt, different levels of cure, different time scales.

Grisell

I know, it seems impossible. However, it's what the US scientists advise.
See the USDA Processing Inspectors' Calculations handbook. The relevant piece starts at the bottom of p21. In the case of small pieces of meat Method 2 will apply. This was proved by chemical analysis by NCPaul. You may wish to refer back to previous thread about this which includes full figures etc.

Phil

[captain wassname]

P.23 at the top:
Method 1 is used for hams etc. because it takes weeks for these large items to reach equilibrium.
The supposistion could be drawn that if you cut them into smaller pieces then they would cure quicker given the same amount of brine.

[saucisson]

If it takes five minutes to boil one egg, how long does it take to boil six eggs?

It depends how you boil them

same for ham, it depends how you cure it.

If I put 1 egg into an infinite volume of water at 100 deg and it takes 5 minutes to boil one egg I think we can agree it will take 5 minutes to boil six eggs, infinitely spaced. If I put 6 eggs in 250ml of boiling water in a small pan I can guarantee it will take longer to cook them than 1 egg in 250ml boiling water

[grisell]

So if I would run the 2 kilos of meat into 100 billion pieces in a blender together with the brine, it would still take 20 days to cure? It's just not reasonable.

[wheels]

No it's not! It'd be heck of a job to get them back out and onto a sandwich!

Phil

[grisell]

No it's not! It'd be heck of a job to get them back out and onto a sandwich!

Phil

[wheels]

Seriously, the concept is that given time the meat and brine become one system:

The second method assumes that the submerged meat, meat byproduct, or poultry and the cover pickle act as a single system. Over time, the ingredients in the pickle, such as nitrite and salt, migrate into the meat, meat byproduct, and poultry until levels in the tissue and in the pickle are balanced. This system is actually very complex and dynamic, with components in constant motion, but it will reach and maintain a state of equilibrium.

As such, it is the amount of meat in 'the system' that's material. Or that's the way I think that we saw it.

There's no doubt that this system of curing is best for smaller rather than larger amounts of meat - something I pointed out on my black ham recipe, but I omitted on the cider ham, as BriCan has highlighted. To professional curers it may seem a kerfuffle, but like the equilibrium dry curing method before it, it is a pretty foolproof way for the home curer to get good (and consistent) results with brine cures. It also has the advantage of using a lot less curing salt, a consideration in countries where this is an fairly expensive commodity.

Phil

[captain wassname]

But Brican How much salt and nitrite does your 4 day cute contain.

Jim

[grisell]

Please excuse me for saying this. There is just no way that I know of in which you can cure a large ham in four days. The center will be uncured. I have tried and it takes weeks.

I don't know what method BriCan uses. I can't say that it doesn't work; however it didn't for me. One week per kilo worked though.

[salumi512]

Please excuse me for saying this. There is just no way that I know of in which you can cure a large ham in four days. The center will be uncured. I have tried and it takes weeks.

I don't know what method BriCan uses. I can't say that it doesn't work; however it didn't for me. One week per kilo worked though.

He mentioned loins, not hams.

[grisell]

Okay.

I made a Christmas ham (5 kgs) the other year. Immersed it in a saturated salt+nitrite solution for four weeks. It didn't come through. The center was still uncured.

If I had injected, it may have helped (?)

[captain wassname]

grisell: In another thread Brican mentioned his 4 day cure and I think mentioned a 10-14 day equalisation period.
What was the brine you used for your 5 kg ham?
I think that you would have had no problem if you had injected and may even been OK if you had rested it for 14 days prior to cooking.
I have a 3kg boned leg that I am combination curing at the moment which I will give 14 days.