www.sausagemaking.org

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 7:26 pm**

I would like to get comments from sausage experts as to what constitutes the "standard ingredients" in English/Cumberland pork sausage. This is the basic stock upon which variations are built.

I present my list below - feel free to add, remove or amend.

1 lb pork (40% fat)
2 T. breadcrumbs (or equivalent amount of rusk)
4 T. water (or equivalent for rusk)
1 t. kosher salt (or curing salt)
1 t. sage
1/2 t. dextrose
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes

* Pork is prepared from 75% pork butt (visually lean) plus 25% pork back fat (no lean).

* Pork is minced with a 3-hole kidney plate (or 3/4" plate), mixed with seasonings and then minced again with 3/8" (or 3/16") plate.

* Sausage is aged a minimum of 24 hours in the refrigerator.

* Cooking consists in pan frying a 4" dia. patty about 3/8" thick on moderately low heat until fully cooked.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:10 pm**

Hi Bob

If its cumberland or an english sausage you intend to make have a look at some of the recipes that have been posted by the members.
If you are asking if the recipe you are using is anything like cumberland sausage then the answer is no
Other points
I would use 25% fat as 40% seems rather high almost commercial
we do not use curing salt
Cumberland would not use red pepper flakes (I can't think of any english sausage's using these)
And sausages would be in a casing & not a pattie
Also cumberland would not be linked but left in a coil.
please follow the link below for Francos Cumberland sausage

http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/cumberland.pdf

Regards
sausagemaker

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:44 pm**

Bob if you like the sausages that you make from that recipe great. But they are neither English nor Cumberland.

Spicy sausage in my experience is never touted as English. We over here for sandwiches breakfast and sausage and onions seem to prefer subtlety spiced and maybe herby sausages.

I have heard of sausage makers using chili but in minute proportions that cannot be distinguished as chili. Well as an Englishman those are my preferences anyway.

I posted this recipe months ago way before Franco's Cumberland recipe though it seems remarkably similar. Have a look at the link below this is a good English recipe.

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=402

The original recipe

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... highlight=

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 8:58 pm**

sausagemaker wrote:Hi Bob
If its cumberland or an english sausage you intend to make have a look at some of the recipes that have been posted by the members.

I have - that's where I came up with these ingredients - as a common denominator.

If you are asking if the recipe you are using is anything like cumberland sausage then the answer is no.

Hmm... I thought this was a recipe I got from the forum:

Cumberland Sausage

Standard Ingredients
1 lb pork
2 T. breadcrumbs
4 T. water
1 t. salt
1 t. sage
1/2 t. sugar
1/4 t. ground pepper
-----
Extra Ingredients
1/4 t. marjoram
1/4 t. mace
1/4 t. nutmeg

Is this not a recipe for Cumberland sausage? If not, what is wrong with it.

I would use 25% fat as 40% seems rather high almost commercial

When Parsons Snow did the calculation using my pork mix figures he came up with around 25%. I am using a different estimate for VL trim, and it comes out to 40%. If I used 25% based on my method my sausage would come out like sawdust. So I believe we are using the same pork mix you call 25%.

we do not use curing salt

Yes, I know - I just threw that in in case someone was worried about spoilage. I only use curing salt in ground meat jerky.

Cumberland would not use red pepper flakes (I can't think of any english sausage's using these)

That's my prejudice - Texans like a spicier taste and the red pepper flakes are a must. Let's call it "English Sausage - Texas Style".

And sausages would be in a casing & not a pattie

Yes, I know that too, but I needed a way to test so I could adjust the flavors. After adjusting, you can stuff the rest.

please follow the link below for Francos Cumberland sausage

http://www.sausagemaking.org/acatalog/cumberland.pdf

* His pork ratio is about 75%/25% - nearly the same as mine.

* He uses about the same amount of breadcrumbs and water.

* He uses a lot less salt and pepper - I can't eat unsalted/unpeppered food - it's too bland for my taste. And I can't eat pork sausage without the sage. I took the salt, pepper and sage ingredients from English sausage.

If what you are saying is that Cumberland saugage is a lot different from English sausage (e.g., bangers), then I will have to come up with separate Standard Ingredients. But I am looking for a common denominator from which I can experiment with different additional spices.

Thanks for your comments.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:16 pm**

Oddley wrote:[color=indigo]Bob if you like the sausages that you make from that recipe great. But they are neither English nor Cumberland.

What exactly makes it different? The pork ratio for English sausage seems the same, the breadcrumbs and water are about the same, the salt, pepper and sage are about the same, etc. Of course, the Standard Ingredients list leaves out the detailed spices - but that's its purpose, to give you the same ingredients for all kinds of English sausages.

Spicy sausage in my experience is never touted as English. We over here for sandwiches breakfast and sausage and onions seem to prefer subtlety spiced and maybe herby sausages.

As mentioned in another reply, the red pepper flakes are my variant. I did not expect it to deviate so much. Take it off the list.

I posted this recipe months ago way before Franco's Cumberland recipe though it seems remarkably similar. Have a look at the link below this is a good English recipe.

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopic.php?t=402

Maybe I am missing something, but the Standard Ingredients (other than special spices) look a lot like my recipe. What am I doing that is different other than red pepper?

The original recipe

http://forum.sausagemaking.org/viewtopi ... highlight=

I am getting very confused. This forum s/w won't take me directly to the referenced post so I have to fish for it and I do not know what I am looking for.

Thanks for your comments.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:28 pm**

Hi Bob

The recipe you got from the forum is a typcal english sausage, however the recipe you intend to use is not.
The only part to bear any resemblance was the pork, breadcrumb & sage you then americanised it by the addition of dextrose, kosher salt & chilli flakes.
I understand what you say about your own taste and if this is to your taste then so be it. Go for it & enjoy.
But it would be like me making a chilli con carne without the chilli becuse I dont like heat, you need to taste what other cultures do to appreciate there products.

The way I work out my fat would be to use shoulder meat & pork belly
assuming the meat is split into 11oz pork shoulder with 15% fat
& belly pork at 5oz at 50% fat
then 11oz of shoulder would have 1.6oz fat & the belly 2.5oz fat = 4.1oz
4.1/16 = 25.6% fat
As for the pepper being a cumbrian (Home of the cumberland sausage) I agree the recipe does seem to need a bit more Umph I would double the pepper & by the way make it black pepper, if you still need some more heat try adding a little cayenne

Hope you find this useful

Regards
sausagemaker

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 9:31 pm**

Bob it's difficult to explain I suppose the difference is in the amount of spices used let me use your original list as an example.

Bob wrote:1 lb pork (40% fat)
2 T. breadcrumbs (or equivalent amount of rusk)
4 T. water (or equivalent for rusk)
1 t. kosher salt (or curing salt)
1 t. sage
1/2 t. dextrose
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes

1 lb pork (25%)
3/4 tbs Breadcrumbs
water
1/2 tsp - 3/4 tsp salt
1 tsp dried sage
I don't put sugar in sausages other people might
1/4 ts black pepper
No chili
1/4 ts spices

I would then add a combination of spices (1/4 ts spice)

White pepper
ginger
nutmeg
mace
cloves

I hope you can see the difference my sausage is less spicy more subtle.

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:05 pm**

Hi Bob

It must be very frustrating for you but I am about to make a fool of my self & try to explain english sausage
All forum members please help here.

What makes sausages English?

Firstly they are sold raw not cooked like most continental.
Butchers style sausage are normally minced from whole muscle meats & not emulsified as bratwurst
The use of herbs & spices to give subtle flavours nothing to overpowering
Remember the hotter the country the hotter the spices used
In the south a mixture of Pork & Veal is common, the midlands like tomato flavours as do some in the north
Pork is the main ingredient throughout the land
Beef is prominent in Scotland
All sausages are made with a casing except the lorne sausage from Scotland
They nearly always contain a filler of some sort

A basic sausage would be something like
80% Pork (or a mixture of pork and other meats)
2.5% Seasoning
6.5% Rusk
11% Water

Each district had it own sausage i.e. Oxford, Cambridge, Epping, Lincolnshire, Cumberland, Manchester, Yorkshire.
It was the seasonings as much as anything that made them special as the recipe for the meat is much the same.
The texture difference could be achieved by the increase in fatty meats or the amount of meat used in the recipe.
Some recipes can go down to 50% meat as the English law allows this, it is fair to say that it would be factories that made this type of sausage as they needed bowl cutters to emulsify the water & binders.

Regards
sausagemaker

Posted: **Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:16 pm**

I agree with you Sausagemaker I know exactly what you are talking about. But will Bob.

perhaps another way to explain it is when you go out for a curry sometimes a particular spice stands out and after a while you can't eat anymore. Other times you cannot taste any individual spice they all intermingle to give a unified taste which is always better.

Well to me that's English sausage at it's best nothing jumps out and slaps you round the face.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:34 am**

sausagemaker wrote:Hi Bob

The recipe you got from the forum is a typcal english sausage, however the recipe you intend to use is not.
The only part to bear any resemblance was the pork, breadcrumb & sage you then americanised it by the addition of dextrose, kosher salt & chilli flakes.

I admitted I Texanized it with red pepper flakes. Gotta have that pepper taste to make it authentic. But let's remove it and go from there.

But the dextrose I got from English sausage recipes. And so with the kosher salt. There are several posts from England about those spices.

The way I work out my fat would be to use shoulder meat & pork belly assuming the meat is split into 11oz pork shoulder with 15% fat
& belly pork at 5oz at 50% fat then 11oz of shoulder would have 1.6oz fat & the belly 2.5oz fat = 4.1oz 4.1/16 = 25.6% fat

I don't think we are ever going to reslove this matter because interstitial fat is the result of where the pork comes from.

As for the pepper being a cumbrian (Home of the cumberland sausage) I agree the recipe does seem to need a bit more Umph I would double the pepper & by the way make it black pepper, if you still need some more heat try adding a little cayenne

Cayenne is distinctively a Cajun spice. Please see the recipe for Andouille I posted elsewhere. I would give you a link, but this forum s/w is nototious for screwing links up. Try the Search if you are interested.

Hope you find this useful

Regards
sausagemaker

Indeed, any comments from sausage experts is very helpful.

What I am trying to do with this thread is identify what makes English/Cumberland sausage unique. I believe it is the Standard Ingredients, from which variations are produced.

At least I now know the effect of breadcrumbs in pork sausage. I really like the smooth texture it provides.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:47 am**

Oddley wrote:Bob it's difficult to explain I suppose the difference is in the amount of spices used let me use your original list as an example.

Bob wrote:1 lb pork (40% fat)
2 T. breadcrumbs (or equivalent amount of rusk)
4 T. water (or equivalent for rusk)
1 t. kosher salt (or curing salt)
1 t. sage
1/2 t. dextrose
1/2 t. coarse ground black pepper
1/2 t. red pepper flakes

1 lb pork (25%)
3/4 tbs Breadcrumbs
water
1/2 tsp - 3/4 tsp salt
1 tsp dried sage
I don't put sugar in sausages other people might
1/4 ts black pepper
No chili
1/4 ts spices

I would then add a combination of spices (1/4 ts spice)

White pepper
ginger
nutmeg
mace
cloves

I hope you can see the difference my sausage is less spicy more subtle.

Excellent. It appears I am using too much breadcrumbs. Can I use 1 T. for ease of measurement? Also, I am using double for water, namely 2 T.

I need 1 t. salt which is close to your 3/4 t. salt. I do not think we have an issue here.

We agree exactly on the sage. I can't imagine any pork sausage without sage. That's one of the reasons I eat it - for the sage.

I am used to a bit of sweetness in pork sausage, so I included some sugar. I believe some of the recipes I have seen here include some dextrose.

Your pepper is a bit scant compared to mine - but then Texans are used to more pepper, which includes red pepper flakes. I do not believe, however, that we have an issue here because I admit I want it spicier. Now, if you really want it spicy, include 1 t. cayenne. That'll curl your hair for you.

Up to here we have the Standard Ingredients. The remaining spices you list are the extras that separate one variety from another.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 3:58 am**

sausagemaker wrote:Each district had it own sausage i.e. Oxford, Cambridge, Epping, Lincolnshire, Cumberland, Manchester, Yorkshire.

It was the seasonings as much as anything that made them special as the recipe for the meat is much the same.

OK, now we are getting somewhere. I want to separate out the Standard Ingredients from the specialty spices that make for the different varieties, at least as much as I can.

You appear to agree that the pork mix is about the same, so we have that as the basis for constructing the Standard Ingredients list. The rusk (or breadcrumbs) and water appear about the same, although I believe I need to reduce the amount to 1 T. breadcrumbs and 1 T. water. Then there's the salt, sage and pepper. I consider them to be Standard Ingredients for any pork sausage.

If I were to make a sausage with just those ingredients I think it would be tasty. It's the remaining spices that add the regional flavors you allude to above.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 8:31 am**

Hi Bob

Firstly cayene is used in sausage in the UK, we had boats a lot ealier than yourselves you know. However we don't overpower anything with it, remember the warmer the country the warmer the spice, and were normally cold.
Anyway on to the regional sausage seasoning we spoke of earlier.
Please find below the seasoning for some regional sausages.
These have been obtained from a book called "Hippisley Coxe's Book of Sausages" - ISBN0575040041.

Yorkshire sausage
30% Ground White Pepper
1.75% Ground mace
1.75% Ground nutmeg
0.5% Ground cayene
66% Fine Salt

Epping Sausage Seasoning

15% Ground Whitee Pepper
2% Ground Sage
2% Ground Ginger
1% Ground Cayene
80% Fine Salt

Manchester Sausage Seasoning

16% Ground White Pepper
2% Ground Mace
2% Ground Nutmeg
4% Ground Ginger
3% Ground Sage
3% Ground Cloves
70% Fine Salt

Cumberland Sausage Seasoning

24% Ground White Pepper
1% Ground Cayene
1% Ground Nutmeg
74% Fine Salt

N.B. I would use Black pepper but this is a matter of personal preference
You may also find that some cumberland recipes would include a little herb.

I would suggest that you use these at the rate of 2% due to the salt level.

Hope this throws a bit more light on the subject

Regards
sausagemaker

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:24 am**

sausagemaker wrote:Hi Bob

Firstly cayene is used in sausage in the UK, we had boats a lot ealier than yourselves you know.

Yeah, we know - we chased a bunch of them back home a couple times IIRC.

Anyway on to the regional sausage seasoning we spoke of earlier.
Please find below the seasoning for some regional sausages.
These have been obtained from a book called "Hippisley Coxe's Book of Sausages" - ISBN0575040041.

Yorkshire sausage
30% Ground White Pepper
1.75% Ground mace
1.75% Ground nutmeg
0.5% Ground cayene
66% Fine Salt

Epping Sausage Seasoning

15% Ground Whitee Pepper
2% Ground Sage
2% Ground Ginger
1% Ground Cayene
80% Fine Salt

Manchester Sausage Seasoning

16% Ground White Pepper
2% Ground Mace
2% Ground Nutmeg
4% Ground Ginger
3% Ground Sage
3% Ground Cloves
70% Fine Salt

Cumberland Sausage Seasoning

24% Ground White Pepper
1% Ground Cayene
1% Ground Nutmeg
74% Fine Salt

N.B. I would use Black pepper but this is a matter of personal preference
You may also find that some cumberland recipes would include a little herb.

I would suggest that you use these at the rate of 2% due to the salt level.

Hope this throws a bit more light on the subject

Regards
sausagemaker

OK, now we're getting somewhere. Notice the common ingredients in those recipes: pork, salt, pepper. Those are the Standard Ingredients, to which I added sage and cayene.

I don't think, however, that the concept of Standard Ingredients is helpful because it is rather obvious that pork sausage contains salt and pepper. So what I will do is take the recipes above as standards - IOW I now have 4 Standard Ingredient lists to work with.

Thanks for your comments. I will figure out the art of English sausage with everyone's help.

Posted: **Sat Jan 08, 2005 11:17 am**

Bob wrote:Yeah, we know - we chased a bunch of them back home a couple times IIRC.

I see a patriotic argument coming so I think I'll let that slide.

I hope the sausages work out for you let us know how they tasted

www.sausagemaking.org

Standard Ingredients For Pork Sausage

Standard Ingredients For Pork Sausage