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Hi,

I've been searching further information about charcuterie traditions in Spain. I've found this blog entry which summarizes the contents of a two-days course in traditional charcuterie, and includes several recipes (in Spanish): http://eventos-gastronomicos.blogspot.c ... en-el.html

It seems to me that a few disturbing practices are adviced in this link, and they seem to be common practice among several of the "home-charcuterie" videos and pages I've found:

1. No mention whatsoever of the importance of cold during the process, when grinding, mixing, etc.
2. No cure mix at all used in dry-cured sausage (i.e. no nitrites nor nitrates). Botulism concerns here?
3. Tipically the forcemeat, once mixed, is left "in a fresh place" for a few days (ranging from 1 to 4) before stuffing. This is contrary to most recommendations I've read elsewhere: during this time the forcemeat will get stiff, making it harder to stuff, isn't it? And my understanding is that this "conditioning" can be done equally well in the already stuffed sausage, which is a better practice. Furthermore, having the exposed forcemeat in "a fresh place" (whose temperature is not specified) seems like a dangerous formula promoting bacteria growth?

Because I am a newbie I'm not sure whether some of these are "acceptable", or rather are these examples of "traditional" practice, that should no longer be practiced in a "modern" kitchen?

Hi Enrique,

my view on the points (admittedly in no particular order) is that lack of nitrate/nitrite is very common in Europe and some chefs/cooks/TV types even promote its omission here too. I agree its an unnecessary risk, but each to their own.

Lack of refrigeration is common place and the traditions for fine charcuterie throughout Europe have developed over many years without typically including mechanical refrigeration. I must admit to some of the tastiest things I have eaten have come from caves sheds, back rooms, parlours and under the trees of many small makers in Spain, Italy and France. Some of the flavours that we now think of as classic charcuterie are a result of almost shambolic temperature control and fluctuation throughout the curing and drying process (especially in Spain!) As stated previously we should always ensure we do everything correctly, but there is no point ignoring the fact that whole cultures of cured meat (including the most famous ones) are based on a less than perfect approach to these things but more of a attuned approach to local and seasonal variations combined with years of results to judge from.

leaving mixes to develop and start fermentation before stuffing is something that i was taught throughout Spain and is a practice I use a lot still. I think it helps develop flavour and produces a superior product on a whole range of stuffed cured meat recipes.

No cure mix at all used in dry-cured sausage (i.e. no nitrites nor nitrates). Botulism concerns here?

Yes. There is no reason in my mind to leave out curing salts in a dry cured sausage. It's an unnecessary, and potentially fatal, risk.

well, those are both sides of the argument. I've personally done sausages with and without cure for years. I hang them in the basement after cold smoke, and bite a piece off when I need a snack. no ill effects either way, but I understand the potential risks. by the way: here is something no-one has ever explained to me. since clostridium is an anaerobe, and since a hanging sausage allows water [and I assume air] to penetrate freely in both directions, can it actually be an anaerobic environment?

Thanks all for your answers!

After some reading I now understand better why leaving the forcemeat under the right temperature and humidity conditions does not necessarilly promote pathogenic bacterial growth, but rather a competition with the lactic acid-producing bacteria which is good.

Nevertheless, my issue is that most websites and books I've reviewed do not even mention what are the required conditions for this process to be safe. Nor they mention the inherent botulism risk of not using nitrates/nitrites. I understand that's the way traditional charcuterie has been done, and that likely it can still be done safely with the adequate microbiology knowledge, but the problem is that people who may try these things nowadays does not have the "years of results to judge from" that quietwatersfarm mentioned but rather live in cities with pretty different conditions, and following those guides may lead to very dangerous consequences.

EnriqueB wrote:Nevertheless, my issue is that most websites and books I've reviewed do not even mention what are the required conditions for this process to be safe. Nor they mention the inherent botulism risk of not using nitrates/nitrites. I understand that's the way traditional charcuterie has been done, and that likely it can still be done safely with the adequate microbiology knowledge, but the problem is that people who may try these things nowadays does not have the "years of results to judge from" that quietwatersfarm mentioned but rather live in cities with pretty different conditions, and following those guides may lead to very dangerous consequences.

That's a very good point, well made. It's a wonder that there hasn't been a death yet in the UK what with certain TV programmes 'giving the impression' that it's just a case of hanging sausage up to dry with a complete disregard of the temperature etc.

I've been 'in the middle' of writing a salami tutorial for 'rather a long time' now, I'm trying to present the information to let people make up their own minds what to do, rather than be prescriptive: I will get it finished and on line eventually. It's not the easiest thing for me to do as I'm not as experienced in this area as I am in others.

Phil

Its the not having a 'culture' to fall back on that makes so much of the 'give it a go and hang it in a tree' stuff so dangerous. I am also a bit concerned by the number of professional chefs who, on the back of how popular charcuterie has become, are bodging up very odd looking set ups in the corner of walk ins and store rooms within restaurant environments without enough thought for conditions, temp/humidity and potential cross contamination.

I personally dont think its ever 'safe' to not use nitrates/nitrites from many perspectives and just because someone is still around, whilst great news in itself, doesn't mean its a sensible pastime - think Chris Walken in that scene in the deer hunter.

I am all for everyone having a go but its fairly tricky to get everything right and safety first every time - then fine tune to get really good results that's why this forum is so good!!

I couldn't agree more.

Very good considerations.

Yesterday I visited the only physical shop in Madrid devoted to charcuterie and pig-slaughtering products, which has been open for more than 55 years. They sold no cure salts at all. In part, they said, for lack of demand, but they also told me that it was not legal to sell them retail. Given that I've been able to buy even 100 g of pure "food-grade" sodium nitrite in another nearby shop, I don't think that's true, but who knows. They did not even know what a "starter culture" was. They had a leaflet with their "family recipes" where the indications for producing "chorizo" were to "leave the forcemeat in a covered box for 12 hours, stuff, hang and aireate in a fresh and dry place for at least 15 days". Of course, no nitrate/nitrite in the recipe

At least i was able to compile some traditional Spanish recipes from an out-of-print book they already had in stock as well as the mentioned leaflet.

EnriqueB wrote:At least i was able to compile some traditional Spanish recipes from an out-of-print book they already had in stock as well as the mentioned leaflet.

Now your talkin!! lets hear em! and then make some safer versions

I agree with QWF.

No problem! When I return from summer holidays I'll compile and post some recipes from the old books.

¡gracias

In 2007 (before I realised that this forum existed - even though I'd been buying casings from here ) I followed a recipe for Chorizo out of HFW's River cottage cook book. The only 'safety' factor mentioned was to use 2% salt and the meat will stay wholesome. No nitrates/nitrites were mentioned. I made the sausage and hung them from a cupboard door in the kitchen. Tried them a few days later by cutting into rings and fried in olive oil and they were quite good. 2 were left for months and went very dry but didn't go off. I think ignorance is bliss sometimes

Ste.