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Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:09 am**

Hi,

I was watching HFW the other day and his recent Ham recipe etc.
on RC Autumn.

I have been reading this forum and it seems like keeping the ham pink is a problem and the the meat turns grey rather than pink.

How do I cambat this.

I will be using the simple salt brine.

I did try to troll through the posts but none of the subjects appeared to answer my question.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:46 pm**

Welcome to the forum,

You need to introduce a source of nitrite to guarantee cooked ham stays pink. This interacts with the blood pigments in the meat and keeps them pink, while also combatting the effects of any harmful bacteria. You can add a commercial cure to your brine or go back to basics and add saltpetre, which was used traditionally. We can give you the necessary recipes depending on your preference. HFW doesn't generally like adding nitrite to his cures. One can only assume he is happier with the provenance of his meat source than many of us here are

Dave

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:00 pm**

Many thanks for your reply to a complete newbie!

If I use 2l water to 600gr salt, how much saltpetre do I need?

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:08 pm**

I'll post up the recipe from a fellow member Spuddy, which has been tried and tested by many of us. Give me a minute to find it.

Dave

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:26 pm**

"Easy Ham Recipe

3 Gallons ice cold water
6oz salt (preferably iodine free or unrefined)
6oz cure No. 1 (same stuff Franco sells)
1 level tbsp ground white pepper
20 bayleaves or 1tbsp ground bayleaf
1 tbsp ground cloves
3oz brown sugar or replace 3 pints of the water with 3 pints coca cola (not diet) - I prefer the coke, trust me it works!! "

If you wish to use saltpetre, replace the cure #1 with 0.94 oz saltpetre and 5 oz salt.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:30 pm**

Here is another cure #1 recipe from member Wheels:

We like a fairly low salt, fairly sweet cure.
Ham Recipe using Cure #1

Water 1000 gm (ml)
Salt 130 gm
Sugar 110 gm
Cure #1 32 gm

Total 1272 gm

I use half white sugar and half demerara or dark brown sugar.
Flavourings - In the last ham for example, to a 3 litre of water mix we added 10 Juniper Berries, 4 Cloves, 10 Black Pepper Corns, 4 Parsley Stalks, 1 sprig Thyme, 2 Bay Leaves and 6 Coriander seeds.

Method
Find a container that the meat fits in closely, but not tightly. Work out how much brine you need - if the meat is vac packed you can use water to find out! Calculate your brine.

Weigh your ingredients out and after bashing the spices about a bit, weigh them.
Bring the Water (or some of it), Salt, Sugar and spices to a boil and leave to cool.
When cold, weigh and add water to make it up. That is, add up the weight of the water, salt, sugar and spices and make up the brine with water to this amount. Mix in the cure #1.

Weigh your meat and measure out 10% of its weight in brine. Inject this into the meat in lots of different places (That's different places in the meat, not different places around the house or country - although that would be more fun. Laughing) So if, for example, your meat is 3172 gm you would inject 317 gm of brine, in total, into the meat.
Put the meat into your container with the remaining brine. Leave, in the fridge, for 7 - 10 days (longer won't hurt) turning the meat over every day or so - or in my case when I remember.
Rinse in cold water, and cook. I poach mine in a large pan with the water at 75 to 80C until the internal temperature of the meat is 68C. I hold it at this temperature for 1/2 to 1 hour.

Dave

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:58 pm**

Dave,

I would not recommend spuddys "Easy Ham Recipe" for beginers. As large amounts of nitrite ingoing are possible for a ratio of more that 2 parts meat to 1 part brine.

Here are my results.

Easy Ham Recipe

13638 g ice cold water
170 salt (preferably iodine free or unrefined)
170.1 cure No. 1 (same stuff Franco sells)
10 g ground white pepper
6 g ground bayleaf
8 g ground cloves
85 g brown sugar or replace 3 pints of the water with 3 pints coca cola (not diet) -
I prefer the coke, trust me it works!! "

If you wish to use saltpetre, replace the cure #1 with 0.94 oz saltpetre and 5 oz salt.

This recipe must be used at 2 parts meat too 1 part brine

Results using Cure#1

Total Brine Weight = 14087.1 g

green weight (gram) meat block + gram pickle = 42261.3 g

Ingoing mg/Kg nitrite at usage rate 2 parts meat to 1 part brine = 237 mg/Kg meat

With full 80% reduction through reactions cooking etc: leaves 47 mg/Kg nitrite.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:44 pm**

Oops, I thought that one was still Ok to use, I have moved over to your pump and dry rub method now.

Dave

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:59 pm**

Yeah I know, immersion equilibrium brines are the most difficult to understand.

I have come up with a way to do any size brine safely, if the instructions are followed closely.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 6:05 pm**

Oddley

You're working the figures out with (approx) 10kg of meat - many people new to curing will use a smaller piece of meat, giving even higher levels - on 2kg it's going to be above 1400PPM - that's assuming we work on the USA calculation method, and that it reaches equilibrium, which makes matters even worse.

Can you advise on the following related matters:

Have you come across any work on the reduction of nitrite/nitrate during curing/cooking, or have any method to calculate this?

What sort of time in cure would a 10kg ham take to reach equilibrium and is there any formula for calculating this? (I ask because calculation to Method 1 on page 22 of the handbook would give a completely different result)

What is your advice/opinion about the use of 'ready made' cures that appear to ignore this method (method 2 in the USA immersion curing calculations).

What is your advice/opinion on the reduction of ingoing nitrate to 150PPM as required by the revised EU rules?

carllancaster

Welcome

I am not questioning Oddley's advice, he is correct. I am asking purely out of interest and to expand my own knowledge. If you do want to use an immersion cure - please post the (exact) weight of meat you will be using and I (or someone else) will calculate the amount of curing salts for you. Alternatively, you could use one of the ready made cures available on the main sausagemaking.org site.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:01 pm**

Oddley wrote:Yeah I know, immersion equilibrium brines are the most difficult to understand.

I have come up with a way to do any size brine safely, if the instructions are followed closely.

Tell me more...

I must say it's nice to know you're both out there keeping an eye on safe nitrate/nitrite levels for us

Dave

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:36 pm**

Hi wheels.

wheels wrote:You're working the figures out with (approx) 10kg of meat - many people new to curing will use a smaller piece of meat, giving even higher levels - on 2kg it's going to be above 1400PPM - that's assuming we work on the USA calculation method, and that it reaches equilibrium, which makes matters even worse.

That was what I was trying to convey, that even if you used the cure at a commercial level, the nitrites were still very high, and it's doubtful if a newcomer would know to use it at a 2 to 1 level. Therefore, they could be putting themselves at risk using, the "Easy Ham Recipe."

wheels wrote:Have you come across any work on the reduction of nitrite/nitrate during curing/cooking, or have any method to calculate this?

Yes I have. Apparently nitrite will reduce by approx 50% in the first 24 hours then will reduce to about 20% after that in a quite short time.

Also nitrite will reduce when being heated (cooking), between 20-80%

Nitrite will reduce to practically zero within 20 days when in contact with sodium ascorbate/erythorbate

These facts were posted by Parson Snows, in images, of pages of scientific books, I just can't find them. Perhaps you will have more luck.

I have uploaded a .pdf HERE that might be of some interest.

wheels wrote:What sort of time in cure would a 10kg ham take to reach equilibrium and is there any formula for calculating this? (I ask because calculation to Method 1 on page 22 of the handbook would give a completely different result)

I normally go 10 days a Kg up to a certain size, then 11 days an inch. I do this more from experience and reading than any formula. It would be impossible to calculate the dissipation rates with any certainty, after all we are dealing with natural products, each one different from the next.

wheels wrote:What is your advice/opinion about the use of 'ready made' cures that appear to ignore this method (method 2 in the USA immersion curing calculations)

Most reputable companies use a cure rate of 2 parts meat to 1 part brine, or so there literature tells me. I have no time for companies or cures that don't give a curing rate.

wheels wrote:What is your advice/opinion on the reduction of ingoing nitrate to 150PPM as required by the revised EU rules?

You know what kills me, nitrate/nitrite from cured meats make up a tiny proportion of our daily intake of these chemicals. I think I read on this site that the FSA have reduced the level of potassium nitrate in baby foods to 200 mg/kg HERE
I will use whatever I feel is apropriate, for each preperation.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:12 pm**

saucisson wrote:Tell me more...

As long as you know how to do simple percentages, then this recipe will work for any size meat.

Oddley wrote:New English Brine

IMPORTANT, ONLY USE THESE RATIOS
2 Parts Meat
1 Part Brine

Brine Ingredients
84.79 % - Water
0.21 % - Saltpetre (700 mg/Kg)
10 % - Salt (10.5% Brine concentration)
5 % Sugar

Method:
You may add to this brine any insoluble herbs spices you like ie: whole coriander seeds, whole bay leaves, whole juniper berries. Bring the water to a simmer and add all ingredients, including the insoluble ones. Leave to cool to room temperature. Meanwhile, allow your meat to come to room temperature, and leave it there for about an hour to encourage the lactic acid flora to grow. Find a tight fitting container of food grade plastic, You will need a tight fitting container, because most importantly you are using the brine, 1 part too 2 parts meat. Submerge the meat below the surface and keep it there with a plate or weight, of some kind. Now put it on the top shelf of the fridge, 5 - 6 ï¿½C for 10 days per Kg of meat. Or at least 9 days. turning every other day.

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:21 pm**

Oddley, you are awesome as always, Thank you

Dave

Posted: **Wed Nov 12, 2008 9:14 pm**

Oddley

Many thanks for the information - it's cleared a lot of things in my brain!
Your method for safely curing with brine is superb, and will help many who don't want to pump cure to do so safely.

I will use whatever I feel is apropriate, for each preperation

I fully agree with you on this and have concerns that the FSA EU levels are too low when curing 'long term' - At least in the USA they explain fully the calculation methods etc.

Regards
Phil

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Keeping Ham pink

Keeping Ham pink