Why this 2:1 ratio?

[Titch]

Do we have a link to Oddleys 2-1 brine please'
This is most interesting.
Cheers.
Titch

[captain wassname]

Phil has reworked this cure to account for NCPauls experiment
http://www.localfoodheroes.co.uk/sausag ... andard.htm

Back where you started

Jim

[Jogeephus]

I'm beginning to see where I'm confused. Good thing is there is more than one way to skin a cat. EdwinT, I made up a 70% brine the Wednesday for some pigs that were butchered yesterday and I'll find my notes and post the amounts if you wish.

I use a salinometer for all brine work and find it priceless. Once it reminded me to add salt to the brine.

[wheels]

sorry Phil been struggling with my reply

Jim

Thanks goodness for you replies Jim - mine haven't been much help at all. I've proper got it around my neck!

Just to return to the original question, it's worth explaining that part of the reason for a ratio of meat to brine is that, with this method, if we didn't stick to a ratio we would have to calculate a cure for each piece of meat individually.

A 2:1 brine at around 10% brine happens to give a sensible level of salt. A higher ratio of brine to meat would would result in a saltier product. However, as Jim so rightly points out, the essential is to get the correct level of nitrite/nitrate.

I have brine cured using both this method and the method that assumes that the meat absorbs not more than the level of nitrite in the brine. Both successfully. Although initially sceptical, this method has 'grown on me' and I find myself using it more often. I certainly think that it is by far the best method for the smaller pieces of meat that many members here prefer.

As Jim points out, it can be made to work far more quickly, but a reduction in curing time is only likely to lead to an increase in maturing/equalisation time. Therefore, it seems a bit daft to adopt shorter time scales with lesser certainty of their progress towards equilibrium than to stick with what is inherently safe.

With whatever brining method we choose we have no sure way of knowing how much nitrite has gone into the meat. The beauty of the 2:1 system is that there's far less nitrite to start with to cause problems.

As an example of this safety, take the last cure I did (A cider cure). If every scrap of nitrite and nitrate had entered the meat, leaving none whatsoever remaining in the brine, it would still have been below 300PPM. Looking back on some of the older style cures (% nitrite in brine/% pick up) this figure would be 6 times greater.

Nowadays, if I'm not in a hurry I use this method. If I want speed, I inject.

Phil

[captain wassname]

Jogeephus I am very interested in your 70% cure and method if you could post it would be much appreciated

Jim

[DiggingDogFarm]

FWIW, I found the following recently on the Wedliny Domowe site:

The easiest way is to estimate the needed amount of brine. You have to cover the meats and a lot of brine will be wasted if you cure 1 chicken in a filled to the top 55 gallon drum. A basic rule of thumb dictates that the amount of brine should come to 50 % in relation to the weight of the meat. For 2 lbs of meat use 1 pound of brine. Try to use a container whose size and shape will accomodate best the meat piece to use as little brine as possible. In Poland where people have smoked meats for hundreds of years, almost everybody (meats plants included) uses the following weight ratio: from 30 % to 40 % of water to 100 % of meat. That means that for 1 kg (2.2 lbs) of meat we add 0.4 liters (400 mg) of water. Keep in mind that 1 liter of water weighs exactly 1 kg.

http://www.wedlinydomowe.com/sausage-ma ... king-brine

My brines are typically even more concentrated.

[wheels]

It's interesting to see that the Polish method is very similar to the 2:1 method. My last cure was 41% water to meat.

However, there is no scientific reason that says that the ratio of this type of cures must be 2:1 or for that matter 40% water. But if you don't use some ratio, then you have to calculate each cure individually to match the amount of meat and liquid involved.

I'd stick my neck out and say that the reason 2:1 is used is because 100kg of meat fits quite nicely into a tub holding 50 kgs brine. I can't recall whether Oddley gave his reason for sticking with 2:1, it could well have been for some of the reasons I've already stated - keeping the brine above 10% salt without producing salty product, economy, tradition - I don't know.

Please feel free to use whatever ratio is convenient for you, but you will need to reformulate any recipes that have been designed for a 2:1 ratio.

HTH

Phil

[EdwinT]

Phil, Jim and everyone else who has posted such great information, thank you very much. You have helped my confidence in starting a ham, immensely.

Jogeephus

I'm beginning to see where I'm confused. Good thing is there is more than one way to skin a cat. EdwinT, I made up a 70% brine the Wednesday for some pigs that were butchered yesterday and I'll find my notes and post the amounts if you wish.

I use a salinometer for all brine work and find it priceless. Once it reminded me to add salt to the brine.

Jogeephus, like others on the firum, I would be more than interested in the recipe for the 70% brine solution. Please post it when you can get the time.

Phil

With whatever brining method we choose we have no sure way of knowing how much nitrite has gone into the meat. The beauty of the 2:1 system is that there's far less nitrite to start with to cause problems.

As an example of this safety, take the last cure I did (A cider cure). If every scrap of nitrite and nitrate had entered the meat, leaving none whatsoever remaining in the brine, it would still have been below 300PPM. Looking back on some of the older style cures (% nitrite in brine/% pick up) this figure would be 6 times greater.

I can now see the logic regarding the safety levels of nitrite being used in the 2:1 method. As you say, Phil, the less you use the less risk there is in making a harmful error by overdoing it with the dreaded nitrites.

Please feel free to use whatever ratio is convenient for you, but you will need to reformulate any recipes that have been designed for a 2:1 ratio.

HTH

Phil

At this point I should clarify my situation... I have a domestic fridge in our spare bedroom that we use less than the one in our kitchen, so this is where our bacon (and future ham) curing goes on. The fridge is fitted with a plastic salad bucket below the bottow shelf. This is a very common arrangement for domestic fridges. So I thought of using it to cure hams. I think the salad tray would hold around 20 to 30 litres when full (I must measure it). This would suggest to me that I could use the brine it will contain to cure multiple hams starting each new ham with a 3 or 4 day interval between each of them.

However, in line with with this discussion, I think I will start by using the 2:1 method until I start to understand more about the subject. Thanks for everyones' input again - it has helped my confidence a lot to start the exercise in earnest!

[wheels]

...This is a very common arrangement for domestic fridges. So I thought of using it to cure hams. I think the salad tray would hold around 20 to 30 litres when full (I must measure it). This would suggest to me that I could use the brine it will contain to cure multiple hams starting each new ham with a 3 or 4 day interval between each of them.

I'll not comment any more than if you want to run a system like this, the 2:1 system is not the one to use.

Phil

[Jogeephus]

I agree. I think you need to find a brine method you like and stick with it so you can learn the nuances of each method. Its all about just getting whatever into the meat.

Edwin, this is how I do it and I'm not saying its right or the best way but its just what suits me well but if and when I find something better I'll change but I have been pleased with the results.

Like Wheels said, its really 43% water or there abouts but I use a combination cure which requires me to rob some of the brine so I figure 50% water from the beginning.

I had planned on making city hams out of 3 of the hams and making something else out of the fourth so I guestimated before butchering the hams would weigh around 22 lbs each or a total of 66 lbs. which would mean in a perfect world I would need 4 gallons of brine. But I planned on also curing the bellies in the same brine so I just bumped it to five gallons.

First I boiled the water to sterilize it. I then add the cure. In this case Cure 1 since I was planning on making city hams and not planning on aging them or cold smoking them.

From here, I estmated and added 10 lbs of salt.
2.5 lbs of brown sugar
1 lb molasses
6.3 oz onion powder and 6.3 oz garlic powder (Note: these had caked up in their containers and I just figured why not make use of it rather than tossing it so I don't know if this is a good idea or not - yet) Sounded good at the time though and the brine smells utterly delicious.

After mixing all this together I tested the brine. It was a bit high. Apparantly not all salts have the same salinity so I added a bit more water and cure solution to dilute it to 70 degrees.

I then set this in the cooler to chill overnight.

From here, I took a gallon bucket and diluted this to 40 degrees and weighed each ham as they came off the pig and either artery pumped 10% of the hams weight with this mixture or I stitched it depending on the vein. After pumping they were placed in the barrel.

I will keep these in the barrel for 5-7 days then take them out and rinse them and hang them to equilize. Note, they are not cured yet cause they need to equilize. This will take a couple to three weeks. After that they are ready for cooking and these hams will be a nice mild flavored ham.

What I like about this method is its versatility. Instead of having a lot of procedures to have to follow all I need to do to make something like bacon is toss it in the brine and pull it out in three days and its ready for the next step. If I want to make a country ham I can use cure 2 and keep the hams in the container for a longer period of time.

Like I said, this is just how I brine cure meat and its just one way of many. Main thing is to just play around with it and find what suits your tastes and keep it simple and keep it fun.

[EdwinT]

Phil and Jogeephus,

Sorry for the slow response but I was away from my PC. I want to thank you both for the detalied and valuable advice. I will try to photograph and record diarywise my first attempt as the cure happens. That way I hope to be able to give detalied responses to further questions that may arise as I go through the procedure. I think it may also simultaneously act as a help-centre for other people who may be nervous about their first attempt.

I hope this arrangement is ok with everybody?

One further word is that I live in Romania and do not have access to cure #1 or #2 but instead have a premixed bag called Nitratex. This is a mix of salt, NaNO2 and NaNO3 according to the label. The manufacturers advise to use this mixture in the ratio of 1gm Nitratex per 1Kg of meat when using it to dry cure bacon. They won't tell me the proportion of each chemical in the mix as they claim it is confidential and propriety information. I add another 4% of salt and about 2% of molasses sugar with some spices (the same mix minus the salt as I use to make my sausages. I find this gives both bacon and sausages a great and complementary flavour) together with 0.5 % of a mix of Sodium Ascorbate, sugar and Citric Acid (this is called "Ham Express" and comes from the same manufacturer as the Nitratex. The results have always been excellent and I haven't had spoilage or any other type of failure to date.

I will seek their advice for the correct dosage to use when pickling hams. I don't have a pump at present and so will have to use the non-pumping system. But my feeling is that I would prefer to cure and equalise for longer using this method rather than pumping.

Anyhow, thanks very much for the advice and this website. It is an invaluable source of wise and well constructed advice.

[wheels]

Edwin

I'm afraid that Nitratex isn't one I've come across before. At 1gm per kg I'm guessing that it's a mighty powerful cure. I'd guess over 15% Nitrite.

Any recipes on here would certainly need adapting before you could use it in them.

Phil